[Dougjr]

Originally Posted by Donna

I love the history and stories of the US Civil War as well. I have a copy of my great-great Grandfather's discharge papers, 3rd Regiment Illinois, 1862-1865, from the Civil War. I will post a copy tomorrow after I scan it on the scanner in the morning. It's interesting to be a split decendant.
My maternal ancestors defended the North and my paternal ancestors defended the South. My mother was always the more "tolerant" parent as it turns out.
We have some memorabilia from our Civil War ancestors like, crossing cannons and, crossing swords epilets, uniform buttons, and cloth rank ensignias from their uniforms.
a proud ancestory.

The 3rd is an excellent example of how most of their fatalities were from illness and disease...as it was for the entire War. Dysentery took more lives than 32 pounder cannon. That is often forgotten.

[Donna]

GG Grandpa made it out unscathed from the battles, but his brother Annanais did get killed at Gettysburg.

[Jake]

That will be a very interesting scan of discharge papers indeed, Donna.

Every part of Ken Burns' "The War" started off with the saying, "The Second World War was fought in thousands of places, too many for any one accounting." The same, or even to a larger extent, can be said of the Civil War.

I like Donna's quote, "My maternal ancestors defended the North and my paternal ancestors defended the South. My mother was always the more "tolerant" parent as it turns out." I find this to be a very popular sentiment.

I'm not trying to belittle the statement in any way, just perhaps to discuss the sentiment: Can it really be said that the North was more tolerant than the South was, though? Yes, in the South slavery was a sacred institution, yet in the North you had the worst slums in the world, you had child labour, you had absolutely no laws forbidding people, for example, to work in dangerous conditions (which culminated, in a way, in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire of 1911). In the North in New York the Irish had to battle with the African American for the worst jobs and living conditions, but then those Irish were sent to the front to fight for the African American's freedom, meanwhile the African American stole the job the Irish vacated. You had massive Draft Riots in the North, the damage from which proportionately speaking overshadows 9/11.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Dougjr

The 3rd is an excellent example of how most of their fatalities were from illness and disease...as it was for the entire War. Dysentery took more lives than 32 pounder cannon. That is often forgotten.

Elisha Hunt Rhodes wrote this on Oct. 22, 1862:
"The weather is getting cold and the men suffer. Some nights it is impossible to sleep and this is filling the hospitals very fast. Our regiment has escaped but we are better off than some."

This statement can say as much for the cold as it can for the camp's sanitation aspect. Rhodes' group had basically the same supplies (blankets, etc) as the others, yet they are better off than others because of perhaps discipline, sanitation and so on.

I would think the Pacific theatre of WWII could say, principly-speaking, the same Doug says with regards to Dysentery in the Civil War. Many in the Island-hopping theatre had to deal with diseases and fevers and dysentery and other sanitation-related ill-conditions; the Jap was, to an extent, secondary.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by SinatraFan

Nice post, Jake! The Civil War is essential for every American and even those around the world to know about.

A point that hardly gets any attention when one regards North vs South is that there were many in the War who weren't either. 11000 soldiers in the Civil War registered as having been born in Italy, for example. There were many international faces in the Civil War.

That alone was nothing new, nor would it be the only time this would occur. Ernest Hemingway, for instance, became famous as well for his involvement in WWI in Italy and also in the Spanish Civil War.

To provide a link to this issue in the Civil War, I think this one is informative:
http://www.civilwarhome.com/ethnic.htm

My brother-in-law, who watched Ken Burn's documentary around the same time I did (although at the time neither of us knew we were both watching it or were interested in the topic), provided me with this link. It's in Italian, but since it is a Sinatra web site...

http://www.steppa.net/html/americana/americana.htm

[Donna]

Jake and Doug, I was able to scan the papers (pretty faded writing), (the line across the bottom was made by the dadgum scanner), and I found a photo of my GG Grandpa from 1914 when he was 73. see below. If you use the magnifier in paint shop you can read some of the lighter print of the papers. He's holding a type of US flag and if you can identify the origin let me know - thx.

[Jake]

Donna, that is really cool!!! I mean, Doug probably sees this sort of thing everyday (however I'm sure he considers these sorts of contributions real treats in any case) but for an amateur like me doing a bit of "distance learning" on the subject to see these sorts of things is wow!

Doug may be able to help you with regards to the origins of the flag... it does have "Worth ....... G.A.R" on one stripe and "DE...." on another. I would guess the "DE...." would be "defense", and "G.A.R" the Grand Army of the Republic.

Imhoff is a German name, derived from "im hof", meaning "in the courtyard".

James was discharged on July 19, 1865 in Louisville Kentucky.

[Donna]

Thanks for the input Jake. I noticed that it said he was born in Pennsylvania, 5'8", fair complexion, brown hair, blue eyes. He was 24 when he was discharged and a farmer by occupation. He wrote in a journal which I have several pages of. The writing is different (technically) and it is hard to read. The shape of the letters are quite different than what we are used to seeing today. The scribbs of the capitals specifically. Hope Doug can tell me more about the flag.

[Jake]

Take care of that journal, Donna. I love the diaries of Elisha Hunt Rhodes, Sam Watkins, and George Templeton Strong, because they recount, in the first two instances, soldiers' lives on both sides, and in the last case, civilian life in the rapidly-becoming most populous city in the world.

I guess there are more diaries that were published as books, but I think they are few and far between. Pity, for they can reveal more than many a historian can.

Maybe you can get someone to fully "decipher" the pages of your ancestor's diary. Future generations will find it interesting.

[Jake]

Regarding the flag, many regiments listed the battles they participated in...

[Jake]

Donna, considering my distance learning, you might want to check out:

http://civilwar.ilgenweb.net/r050/031-d-in.html

I checked on a 3rd illinois infantry regiment, but there wasn't any, only a cavalry regiment. Then I thought the writing may say "31st infantry". Haphazardly, that regiment was mustered out on July 19, 1865 in Louisville. Lo and behold, diving further into the archives in the link posted above, I find the name James Imhoff, from Murphysboro, and even Ananias Imhoff, also from Murphysboro.

Considering the website doesn't list Ananias' fate, and considering it is an Illinois GenWeb project (so they should be legitimate), you may be able to fill in the blanks and make the archives even more complete!

[voice1]

My wife's Confederate Uncle....C.S Parker Pollard.



Another ancestor was Governor of Virginia, John Garland Pollard.

[Jake]

CS Pollard's her Uncle, Rick? Do you mean great (or even great-great-) Uncle, or are you finally revealing your true age?

Seriously, though, it's great to make the connection between the Civil War and members here.

[Jake]

The 31st Illinois infantry regiment was a highly regarded regiment in the Western theatre, and hardly surprising why. The regiment played a part in every US Grant victory from Belmont to Vicksburg, and then with Sherman helped take Atlanta, marched to the sea, etc. That's highly impressive. If it is confirmed that James Imhoff was part of the famed group, really do keep a good eye on his diary, Donna.

[Rich K]

Donna, Hope to see you on Antiques Roadshow sometime. (One of the few shows I watch anymore, other than sports) Then we'll find out what your paper is really worth.

[Jake]

Donna, I hope I'm not going too far with this, but you may consider the following books:

http://books.google.it/books?id=ue7i...%20war&f=false

This is an excerpt from a book written by, I believe, one of your relatives, Edgar Imhoff. A few pages down from where you arrive when you click at the link you can read what Edgar had to say about James Imhoff.

http://www.amazon.com/History-31st-Regiment-Volunteers-Organized/dp/080932184X

I don't know anything about this book, but it seems it is informative of the 31st illinois infantry. Maybe it has some reference to James Imhoff there.

In James' discharge note Captain John Toler is listed, and I think he also signs on the bottom of the discharge papers. He was one of the captains of company D of the 31st.

[Donna]

Jake, I so appreciate your research. Yes, Edgar Imhoff is one of ours too. As a matter of fact, I have seen a hardcopy of "Always of home: a southern Illinois childhood," at my Mom's but haven't had the full opportunity to read it through. Now is the time. It's amazing it's on the web because I know it has been around the family for years. This is exciting news. The ancestory/geneology family members try to pass all of this around, but get consumed by life and fall short sometimes. I will be reading out of this thread alot today, thank you.

I love the link you gave me for the 31st regiment's men. I thought at first the papers read 3rd reg. they are very hard to read. This link will be passed on to a cousin who keeps tracks of all the veterans in our line, he's going to love this.
And finally, the signature at the bottom of the papers is one of John W. Toler. Thanks Jake so much for the links and input, you're a valuable person to know. (I can read the book online too).

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Rich K

Donna, Hope to see you on Antiques Roadshow sometime. (One of the few shows I watch anymore, other than sports) Then we'll find out what your paper is really worth.

Rick that's funny because my sisters have tried to get on there but haven't made it yet, it's a lottery system apparently.

[Jake]

If you have a complete diary of James' war experience from 1862 onwards, considering he went through Vicksburg, Atlanta, marched to the sea, and lots and lots in between, then went up via Greensboro to Washington for the review, it could have amazing value, both for Civil War Archives, and readership interest.

Consider this: Sam Watkins is a very popular Confederate Civil War Diarist, on equal par with Elisha Hunt Rhodes for the Union. James Imhoff's regiment basically followed or fought with Watkins' regiment literally every step of the way, especially Kenesaw mountain and Atlanta. You are looking at possibly the tale told from both sides during the same time (although Watkins wrote his memoirs years later based on memory).

As for Edgar Imhoff's book, I think you can only read the first third or so online, for copyright reasons I would imagine.

[Jake]

Now I'd also like to look at Rick's ancestor CS Parker Pollard. Do you know in which regiment he was posted?