Given the fact that:
1. Frank has influenced generations of Rock and Pop performers
2. Frank has had songs and albums on the Rock & Pop charts during the Rock era
3. A majority of those currently inducted are actually Pop singers
4. Some of those who are either in the Hall of Fame, or are being considered include Nat "King" Cole, BB King,Etta James, Patsy Cline and Johnny Cash
5. Frank headed a major record label (Reprise) that was responsible for discovering many people who went on to become gods in the Rock & Pop arena.

Given all of these reasons, should Frank Sinatra be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? If you agree and I left out your reason, please tell me why you agree. If you disagree, I'd also like to know why.

[jeane frankphan]

Hi Joey, and Welcome..
Your idea is quite on target. I've seen so many rock 'n rollers, famous and world-renowned, state that Sinatra was a huge influence on them. I wish I had a copy of the tribute that Bono of U2 read to Mr.Sinatra. It captured the essence of Sinatra's charisma, style, swagger, attitude; all the things that made Mr. Sinatra the great entertainer that he was/is. The fact that several generations of music lovers and rock 'n rollers grew up under his 'tutelage' demands that he be inducted.
I remember when I moved out of my family's house at the tender age of 19 and got my own apt with a room-mate. I knew nothing about living on my own and had very little money. I remember vividly that I had a choice of buying groceries to keep me from starving OR buying the lastest Frank Sinatra album...You guessed it...I went hungry....but I had my food for the soul....Frank Sinatra...
jeane/FrankPhan

I actually have a copy of Bono's speech from the Grammy Ceremony. I received a complementary copy when I purchased the original version on Nancy Sinatra's book--"Frank Sinatra-An American Legend" There were other recordings on that CD including young Frank on Major Bowes as part of The Hoboken Four and other very rare gems. The only place I know of, for sure, to find that CD is on the original copy of the book. I also have the new edition (after Frank's death) and unfortunately, the CD was excluded. That CD is definitely a must have for any Sinatra collection. Does anyone know where a legitimate audio copy of Bono's Grammy speech can be found?

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, with so many rock, pop, country, blues and jazz performers being inducted, it hardly seems fair to leave out the one man who has been such a major influence on popular music.

Hi Hal,

Last month when I wrote two different E-Mail's to the Hall of Fame in Cleveland, Ohio, and asked them why Nancy wasn't in the Hall of Fame, it took them about a month to write back and say they don't handle that there and gave me an address in NY to write to.

They said to write to the people in NY and ask them why Nancy was not in the Hall and to suggest that she be considered and she should be in the Hall.

Maybe if everyone here on the forum writes, something might be done about it!!


The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame Foundation
1290 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10104

Lynda51

At one time this is how Frank Sinatra described rock 'n roll:

"The most brutal, ugly, degenerate, vicious form of expression it has been my displeasure to hear."

Would Frank Sinatra really want to be inducted?

I say we pool our funds and open a Swooner Hall of Fame!

[Fred F]

Carl- That's the best idea I've heard yet. Either that, or open a "crooners wing" in the R&R HOF. I don't think Sinatra should be there among the rockers of the world...I don't think he'd be too thrilled either.

I think that Frank more than reconciled with the world of Rock when he invited their cream of the crop to join him on Duets. I knew that someone would throw out that infamous quote that he made 50 years ago when he seemed to feel that the new music medium threatened his reign at the top of the music charts. Since making that quote, he has chosen to sing with Elvis Presley(Love Me Tender/Witchcraft Medley). His Reprise box set includes Frank with a picture of George Harrison. He invited the 5th Dimension on one of his specials and sang with them. There is a picture out there of Frank on stage with Elton John (mid 80's). Frank recorded Disco versions of his old classics in the late 70's. He has recorded songs by The Beatles and Jim Croce. Let's not forget recording songs with a certain "Boot-wearin" relative. For that matter, I can remember him being on an episode of Solid Gold back in the early 1980's. I could go on for hours about Frank's visits to the world of Rock, but I'm running of room. He couldn't have hated it that much. After all, Frank NEVER did anything he didn't want to do!! I think that he would have been honored to have been selected.

That's not the first time I've been told Frank's P.R. man made up that quote. I've never been given any proof that is the case, however.

Why is it so hard to believe Frank said it? You don't think he was capable of having strong feelings about rock 'n roll? You don't think he was articulate enough to express himself in that manner?


Here's a Frank Sinatra quote from Western World magazine dated 1958:

"Rock 'n' Roll smells phony and false. It is sung, played, and written for the most part by cretinous goons and by means of its almost imbecilic reiteration, and sly, lewd, in plain fact, dirty lyrics it manages to be the martial music of every sideburned delinquent on the face of the earth. "

Did his P.R. man fabricate this? Or did Frank himself really state it?

And, if it is a fabrication, did Frank ever deny stating it?

JoeyB,

<I think that Frank more than reconciled with the world of Rock when he invited their cream of the crop to join him on Duets .>

No. Frank didn't even invite them to join him in the studio to record with him.

How can that be any kind of a reconciliation?

Yes, Frank had his photo taken with some rock 'n roll stars. He may have appeared on Solid Gold. He did indeed sing with Elvis.

Frank made a few "visits" to the world of rock 'n roll.

I just don't think he strongly embraced it.

P.S. <After all, Frank NEVER did anything he didn't want to do!! >

Do you really believe that is true?

I have read all the postings on the "Hall of Fame " and most are on target . Here is my opinion for what it is worth .

I strongly believe that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame without a doubt. Now , I dont say this because I am a fan but rather that he , Frank Sinatra , was the most influential singer of the 20th century. Critics and fans alike agree on this point .

No one has had more influence in the world of song more than Mr.S . For this reason alone he deserves to be inducted. Say what you may as far as his fealings about "Rock & Roll" but I believe that he changed his mind as time went on . I mean would he have recorded songs by Billy Joel , Jim Croce, The Beatles etc if he truly despised "Rock & Roll". I think not.

Some one posted a reply (I apologize for not remembering your name) stating that most Quotes were issued to the press by the PR staff. This could be true BUT I have heard on numerious occasions Billy Joel , Elton John, Paul McCartney on TV stating point blank that "Frank Sinatra" was the best singer of the 20th century .

Anyway , this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Gregg

Hi Everyone!

Of course Frank said that about Rock and Roll. I think I would have got pretty defensive if I were in Frank's shoes around that time. Let's face it... you have this new type of music (Rock and Roll) taking a run at your livelihood. I would also like to think that some of these quotes came from too many late night drinking parties with Jackie Gleason!

As for Frank being introduced into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think this is a marvelous idea. Frank did Rock and Roll-only the way he new how...with class (take a look at the Frank Sinatra and 5th Dimension TV Special Video-THIS IS A CLASSIC). Let's face it Frank appreciated certain Aspects of Rock and Roll (althogh limited) and many Rock and Rollers admired him for that.

Wouldn't it be great if both Nancy and Frank were inducted at the same time (this would be a definite fitting tribute to the both of them). As for Frank's take on it...I think he would be honored.

Let's get writting!

Carl,
I am glad that my quote concerning the fact that "Frank never did anything that he didn't want to do" stuck with you. That quote can be applied to the moment that Phil Ramone came to Frank and proposed that he do duets with Rock, Jazz, & Country singers. If Frank hated Rock, he would have told Phil to get lost in his own unique way. Instead, he went back into the studio after 10 years to record this album (God knows he didn't need the work or the publicity)--Knowing full well that many would be Rock singers. Anyone who has seriously followed Frank's career could never conclude that he hated Rock music. If you read Nancy's book "An American Legend" It is filled with more than a "few" visits to the rock world. Like with any music style, there is good and bad. We all know that Frank's comments about anything bad were always exagerated and distorted then broadcast to the world. As for not inviting his duet partners into the studio, it is extremely rare that duets are done with both partners live and in the studio. It is nothing personal. Most singers are busy touring so they must record their portions in separate studios and the record company wizards blend them together--That's industry standard today!

I think Nancy Sinatra should definitely be in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

JoeyB,

Your original question was:

< Given all of these reasons, should Frank Sinatra be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?

If you agree and I left out your reason, please tell me why you agree. If you disagree, I'd also like to know why.>

I gave my honest opinion and the reasons for it.

Isn't that what you requested?

You think Frank Sinatra should be inducted and you gave your reasons. Fair enough.

You seem fixated on the idea that I think Frank hated rock 'n roll all of his life. I never stated that.

When I think of Frank, I tend to remember his earlier years when he was known as a swooner/crooner. That's the music I loved back then and still do. To me, nobody did it better than Sinatra.

If you hear the name Frank Sinatra and the first thing to come to your mind is his cover version of a Beatles' song, that's fine with me.

[Nancy]

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Elizabeth.
I'm afraid most of the folks on the committee
that pick the honorees don't have much respect
for my work. I believe most people still think of me
as Frank's daughter!

I really appreciate your support.

Love,
Nancy

Carl,

Yes you gave me your honest answers and I certainly do respect your stand on this issue. When I started this thread, my intent was to have an indepth and honest forum--you gave that to me and I thank you! However, in your responses, you posed some questions (ie "Would Frank really want to be inducted?";"Frank didn't even invite them into the studio with him...how can that be a reconciliation?"; "Frank never did anything he didn't want to do...do you really believe that to be true?"). I was simply responding to your questions in the context in which they were posed (most of which were directed towards me). Once again, thank you for participating in this exchange of ideas!

Joey B.

To everyone on this thread:

I have an answer for you about Frank's feelings about Rock music. It came directly from Frank on the "Sinatra..A Man and His Music+Ella+Jobim"(1967) video. On that video, Ella asked "Frank what do you think of the music the young kids are listening to today?" Frank's exact quote was "Groovy, I love it" Frank made that comment to Ella with great sincerity in his voice. It's official and on tape! Frank loved Rock!!

[Fred F]

except for Carl. I really doesn't matter whether FS was a fan of Rock & Roll. Why should that influence whether he should be admitted into the R&R HOF. The fact is that Frank Sinatra was decidedly NOT a rock and roll singer. He might has covered a few Beatles' tune, but they were the ballads like YESTERDAY and SOMETHING. Carl's suggestion that there should be a "Singers" Hall of Fame is right on target. Not only should Sinatra be voted into that HOF on the first ballot, they should name the damned place after him: "The Frank Sinatra Singers Hall of Fame." Let's see, first ballot: Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole, Sammy Davis Jr. Barbra Streisand,Mario Lanza,...even the great operatic voices- Caruso, Pavarotti,Sills etc would be welcomed. Anyone got a few mill to get this baby started?

[Fred F]

but if that's the case, Why, oh why, the hell ain't he in the R&R HOF. I admit I haven't read anything on this, so if I'm missing something, please let me know. If the R&R HOF isn't just for strictly "rockers", then FS should have been a first ballot, first year, unanimous entry!

[Fred F]

My point is that if you're correct ( and apparently you are), that the R&R HOF isn't strictly for "rockers", then why wasn't FS in there in the very first year? That's like keeping Babe Ruth out of the baseball HOF. My question to you was- have I missed something? Why ain't he in there?

PS I have the 3 CD's you mentioned and I DO listen to them often and loud. He swings big-time...."Hey there cutes put on your dancing boots and COME DANCE WITH ME....COME DANCE WITH ME WHAT AN EVENING FOR SOME TERPSICHORD. PRETTY FACE I KNOW A SWINGIN' PLACE....sorry I got carried away.

While much of Frank's music has always had a Jazz influence. Frank was mostly classified by the music industry as being a "Pop Singer" I believe it was Rolling Stone magazine who once called Frank "The greatest interpreter of popular (Pop) music" Many of the so-called "Rock Singers" who are in the Hall of Fame (or are being considered) are, in reality, "Pop" singers. One of the singers who comes to mind is Michael Jackson (the self-proclaimed "King of Pop")--just inducted in the last 2 years. The Beatles are also in there and they've never done anything that I would classify as true "Rock Music". I say we get the ball rolling to correct this over-site on the part of the R&R Hall of Fame.