A „new“ Sinatra song has been discovered three months ago, as Nancy Sinatra has confirmed a few days ago on another thread. Since that thread has taken a lead away from the music, here is a new one open to discuss the music, and only the music.

The discovery made by the Sinatra family concerns the Reprise session of July 17, 1978. As usually done at each recording session, Musician Union’s session sheets were filled out, noting the songs recorded, the master numbers attached to them, the time and location of the session as it took place, and the individual names of each instrumentalist, primarily as a basis for paying the musicians for their work.

According to the session sheet for July 17, 1978, Sinatra and orchestra gathered at TBS Studios in Burbank, California, from 7.30 to 12 pm. The orchestra was conducted by Vincent Falcone jr. It included a large string and brass section (40 musicians incl. one harp, all listed by name) plus Tom Hensley and Bill Miller on piano, Tim May, Al Viola and Marty Walsh on guitar, Milton Kestenbaum, Milton Nadel and Gene Cherico on bass, Ronnie Tutt and Irving Cottler on drums, and Alan Ester and Larry Bunker on percussion. This team, according to the sheet, recorded three songs with vocals by Sinatra „That’s What God Really Looks Like“ (Reprise master #WCA 8129), „Remember“ (#WCA 8130) and „You And Me“ (#WCA 8131). No take numbers for the masters are indicated.

None of the three recordings were ever released, while discographers who searched the Warner/Reprise and Union files for Sinatra recordings came up with some of the session data. Reportedly, when the 1995 Reprise 20-CD „suitcase“ was about to be compiled, the recordings were searched for at Reprise/Warner but couldn’t be located. Participating musicians were approached but while they all vividly remembered the session, no one of them seemed to have an idea about where the recordings were.

Now, as Nancy Sinatra has said, the tapes have been re-discovered three months ago. (Where and how would be a matter of interest). This is important news to Sinatra world, because while two of the songs from July 1978, „You and Me“ and „What God Really Looks Like“ were re-done by Sinatra aboit a year later and then issued on his Reprise 3-LP album „Trilogy“, the third song, „Remember“, never surfaced on any record. (Also, the 1978 versions of the two other songs differ from the „Trilogy“ versions, in vocal nuances as well as instrumentation, as Nancy has said – probably similar to the versions Sinatra did in concert in 1978).

It’s a (by then) contemporary song especially written for Frank Sinatra by Elton John and Ben Taupin. Sinatra sang in concert frequently between May 1978 and April 1979, to an arrangement he credited to Don Costa. Some of you older fans might have witnessed it in concert, he also took it to Europe during his 1978 appearances in London, England. It is a fine song, and Sinatra’s rendition as heard in concert was very grand. Hence, the prospect of hearing the studio version now, hopefully in not too distant a future, is exciting to many Sinatra fans.

Below are the lyrics of Taupin’s and Sir Elton’s Sinatra song. Don Costa’s arrangement as performed in concert was cleverly picking up certain „Elton John sound elements“, let’s see if the studio recording also carries these.

How could this new song best be presented to public? How do form a decent collection of maybe similar songs or songs from the same period around it? I think that’s a subject worth of discussing it here.


I wrote to you of romance made in heaven,
my words were touched with guilt, my sentences uneven.
What happened to the line
I repeated time after time,
that I’m still in love with you,
I’m still in love with you,
I’m in still with you. Remember!

(Interpunctive interpretation by me, by guess)

[steffen]

yes, good to bring the topic to light.
not many members seem to have read/participated in the original thread.

i only heard a bad sounding audience cassette of that song 'remember', and i adore the melody AND the lyrics.
i ever wondered why this beautiful piece, written especially for sinatra by elton john and bernie taupin, was not recorded for trilogy. it would have fitted so beautifully, amongst 'you and me' and 'summer me winter me'.

this song, and the then unreleased 'isn't she lovely' would have augmented The Present immensely!!
(i don't care much for 'what god looks like', but the new recording of it is welcome too )

-----------------------------

i really have difficulty sometime to tell a great song from a bad one. i can't see what makes 'remember' inferior to other 'standard songs'. the lyrics are torchy, but modern, relating to 'the phone forgets to ring this evening'.
very up to date for a 1978 sinatra (whom i wish i had the possibility to witness in concert )
and very timeless.

oh how i long to hear it.

[Jim L]

Thanks for taking the high road. This is really all about the music , isn't it.

I have a copy of "Remember" taped at a concert, not a line tap so the sound quality isn't too good but it is a real good song imho At the end of the song FS can be heard to say "Elton John, I like it"

Hopefully the studio copy will get released along with the other two 'finds'

Just want to add you consistently bring some class to this site and your knowledge of Sinatra is remarkable. Keep up the good work.

[Edwin]

a marketing natural. Title the album "Remember," include something comparable to the song list of rare Reprise sides that someone posted in the past couple of days including "All the Way Home," "Forget to Remember," the 2 piano sides with Bill Miller ,"My Foolish Heart" and "It's Sunday" among others. Pie in the sky? I don't think so. But Reprise would have to get behind it and Elton John could help, too.

Ed S

[Duncan]

Bernhard, I read your suggestion for a possible album on the other thread and I think that's a brilliant idea!! Especially the inclusion of 'All By Myself', which is a great song! Maybe some of the Mottola/Sinatra duets such as 'As Time Goes By' and 'Send In The Clowns' could be included.

Also, what about that Joe Parnello arrangement of 'Change Partners’, which was penned around the same time, has that ever been recorded? If so I think that would make a great addition to any album.

Does anybody know if Sinatra ever recorded the full version of MacArthur Park?

Duncan

A companion to "Remember" could be "Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word", the one other Elton John-Bernie Taupin song that Sinatra performed. It was written in 1976 and not for Sinatra but for Elton himself who recorded it and sang it on stage. According to the information I have gathered (which as usual could be wrong and/or incomplete), Sinatra performed the song for a very short period of time from January to May 1977 with only a dozen or so performances. If a sound-wise decent recording of this song done by Sinatra could be located and arranged for release, it would perfectly fit "Remember".

Otherwise, I could think of an album combining more or less saloon-type songs all from the „Harvest“ post-retirement period. This could include gems that only surfaced on some long-forgotten singles and/or LPs and the suitcase only, CD-wise, plus some live versions Sinatra did at the time. Here is one suggestion that came to my head as I heard the news of „Remember“ being discovered and re-listened to some of the other songs, and think about a possible „concept“ order for the songs. My main idea was that „Remember“ as headliner and finding and title track and opener would especially nicely correspond to the equally grand „All By Myself“ as a closer, also lyric-wise.

Title of album could be „REMEMBER“.
Tracks:
1. *** Remember (7-17-1978)
2. * The Hurt Doesn’t Go Away (6-5-1973)
3. * Just As Though You Were Here (9-24-1974)
4. ** Everything Happens To Me (9-24-1974)
5. ** The Saddest Thing Of All (9-24-1974)
6. *** You And Me (7-17-1978)
7. * Walk Away (6-22-1973)
8. **** Never Gonna Fall In Love Again (1976)
9. **** The Hungry Years (1976)
10. * Send In The Clowns (2-5-1976 piano version)
11. * Empty Tables (2-5-1976 piano version)
12. ***** Didn’t We (1976)
13. * Hey Look No Crying (9-10-1981/complete version as on the
Reprise 20-CD-suitcase, alternate take/edit exists, She Shot
Me Down" album version was cut down by one chorus)
14. * Monday Morning Quarterback (9-10-1981)
15. * A Long Night (7-20-1981)
16 **** All By Myself (1976)

* A stereo studio recording previously released on the Reprise Suitcase.
** A stereo studio recording not included on the Reprise Suitcase while being there at least on unofficial records, so the studio master should possibly there as well and could be used.
*** A stereo studio recording from the session of July 17, 1978 that has just been re-discoevered.
**** A stereo live version from a song that Sinatra, according to all available printed sources, never recorded in the studio but performed live on stage in the year indicated, as surfaced on unofficial records. So in case the original tapes are not available, in each case to my ears, the quality of the unofficial source would be good enough to use it.
***** Same as above, but a song that while he had recorded it previosuly Sinatra sang to a very different arrangement at the time that (IMO) would fit the mood of such an album.

Your fan thoughts? Nancy's thoughts?

Bernhard.

And oh yes, a PS: If there is any chance to do such a type of an album rather quickly, PLEASE by all means, for the liner notes get Stan Cornyn. He is still alive and out there. His Sinatra liner note prose, IMO and as awarded with a Grammy, will never never ever be transcended. Check the Reprise "September of My Years" or "Moonlight Sinatra" (1965/66), or "L.A. Is My Lady" (1984).

For helping us to get our minds back on the music!

I've never been an Elton John fan, and I've never heard his version of this song, but I've always found Sinatra's performance of it to be quite lovely. He also performed "Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word," another John/Taupin tune, on a few occasions in concert (1976-77, if memory serves).

The fully orchestrated version of "It's Sunday," the 1984 take on "Body And Soul" and the original, 1983 recording of "How Do You Keep The Music Playing?" (was that a Don Costa or Joe Parnello arrangement?) are a few moregems in the vaults that could be dusted off and included on a "new" Sinatra album. FS was in wonderful voice during the late '70s and early '80s -- to hear new music from this period of his career would be thrilling.

Pal Joey

Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word - Sinatra introduced this song as being new "first time" at a concert in Fort Lauderdale/FL, Sunrise Musical Arena, January 27, 1977. The last time he did it on stage as far as reports have been gathered was during his gig at Cherry Hill's Latin Casino in early May 1977. In between were a tour of London/England where he sang it at the Royal Albert Hall (Feb 28 to March 5), and a show at Amsterdam's Concertgebouw on March 7. What gives "hope" for future releases is the fact that he also did it frequently during an engagement at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas from March 17 to 23, 1977 - maybe it is on one of the Caesars tapes acquired by the family??? The version from March 20, 1977 has surfaced on some unofficial record but in shabby quality. I hope this helps in searching for possible stereo versions that survive.

Bernhard.

[Gonzalo Duque]

Talking about the music! No bickering, no fighting or name-calling, flame-outs, etc. Just the music that Sinatra sang for all of us; for himself.

Bernhard, great post! Could it possibly be expanded to 20 tracks?
Off-hand I can't think of other saloon songs to qualify, you have them listed. Just a thought.

Would a new Sinatra release be appealing to the rest of the buying public in the world as it would be to us? I certainly hope so.

*****Could it possibly be expanded to 20 tracks?
Off-hand I can't think of other saloon songs to qualify, you have them listed. Just a thought. *****

Could certainly be expanded time-wise, I did the above compilation for my own enjoyment (in case of the 7-17-.78 tracks, using substitutes of course) and it turned out to be about 60 minutes, so still 15-20 to go for a proper CD.

I gave additions a thought before writing, but it is quite difficult. Of course, some more tracks from "She Shot Me Down" would fit but then, marketing-wise, it would be in danger of being denounced as "a re-issue of a 1981 album through the back door", if you know what I mean.

On the other hand, adding other rarely or never released tracks from the period would destroy the concept of sticking to "one theme", in this case, sad ballads/saloon songs. Maybe adding "Like A Sad Song" wouldn't hurt, somewhere in the middle of my amateur-wise song programme-concept. Of course there are more songs from the pre-retirement era but then again it would no longer be a "Harvest Sinatra" project but a compilation comparable to what we already had from Reprise with "Everything Happens To Me" as released in 1996.

One thing that would fit would be the glorious Saloon medley Sinatra performed on his 1973 comeback TV special, a big Saloon Trilogy consisting of "Last Night When We Were Young" (as a frame song), "Violets For Your Furs", and the one-time-love-it-or-jump-in-the-box-great "Here's That Rainy Day". THAT medley, that was pre-recorded in a studio, is SO great that in case rights could be cleared to issue it on a forthcoming Reprise release, it might even be a matter of waisting treasures at once, maybe rather should be kept for another future release containing the other unique multi-song saloon specials Sinatra did on TV 1965-69.

"It's Sunday", "All The Way Home", "Searching", "How Do You keep The Music Playing?" (orig 1984 or alt 1983) would of course also be great issues, but I feel they would make the possible CD into just some other compilation, of which we have had many. They could be fitted onto some other CD, let's think of a possible programme in that area, too.. but in some other thread, let's stick to the inspiration of "Remember" here.

***Would a new Sinatra release be appealing to the rest of the buying public in the world as it would be to us? I certainly hope so***

So do I, and while as I have repeatedly said I am but a total amateur in today's marketing policies, I had the idea that anything marked "Saloon Sinatra" might sell. You see, he really earned his title of being THE Saloon Singer through many of his classic recordings, but it has also become a stereotype with many many musicians, singers, live acts and TV shows: "When it's piano time, sad and dark, let's use Sinatra". There are countless recent examples. A clever marketing strategy could embark on that, make use of that, NOW as it's there.

Just one marginal point that might be of interest: While on my recent "trip" to inform everybody of my friends (even those who didn't want to know) about the re-discovery of the studio "Remember", I played a live version of the song to one of my best friend who works as Video creator and editor for a German TV-Music channel. He was flipped and on the spot created possible scenes for a Video to be made out of the story the song tells. He'd never heard the song before, it was his instant reactions. So why should other people in similar positions in other countries that are more important, marketing-music-wise, than Germany, react different to it? It should IMO at least given a try.

Also, another one of my crazy ideas, why not try to make "Remember" a song in some of the ENDLESS Soaps that US-UK-European TVs are offering at overdose these days. Then you would not only have a supreme Sinatra ballad album but also, THE album to buy for all the Soap fans, and (again judging from what happens with German sopas) they will buy anything marked "incl Song XYZ from series XYZ". Sinatra has the potential for it - "Love And Marriage" proved it world-wide!!

Think I better stop. But I'm glad that decent exchange about ideas is happening here. At last.

Bernhard.

[Ronald Sarbo]

I thought Remember was on All Alone. Oh well; perhaps the proceeds of this new album could be donated for Alzheimers Disease research.

Ronald:
There are two Sinatra songs of that title. "Remember" as done by Sinatra in January 1962 for "All Alone" is a song by the great Irving Berlin, whereas the re-discovered Elton John-Ben Taupin song has the same title but has nothing to do with ghe former.

Bernhard.

[steffen]

great ideas.
but in which soap would you use "remember". i figure soaps to be cheap or not earnest enough.

the "saloon singer" image is one i would stick to.
also, this is stuff for the moderns, for all the mid-twenties to thirties singles who croud our towns. the album could be marketed as such; not from the 'middle ages' like only the lonely (sorry), but with a modern urban cover, and those younger pop songs like 'remember', 'all by myself', 'you and me'.

I agree Steffen that definetly no soap (out of the ones I know) is "earnest enough" to "deserve", so to speak, the privilege of a Sinatra recording. My suggestion was merely based on the question of how to sell records and boost the marketing figures. If applying "remember" to any dumb blond (or brown/brunette/black etc.) boy/girl in any of the teen soaps, inlcuding a few words of the usual nonsense-lifeless dialogue mentioning the record, it will gain attention. I'm very sure of that. Can't tell you of all the countless times that my nieces and nephews begged me for a certain record/song and when asked why their response would be "it's in the so-and-so series" or "Nicky/Nica from the XYZ series also likes it".

Covers: I would also favor some "urban" motives. However, even the more modern ballads Sinatra did are surely not only for the "younger" people: They are songs for all people who have a heart and make use of it. That certainly doesn't depend on age, does it.

Bernhard.

Another idea when doing an album around "Remember" and/or the other tunes of the newly discovered session could be, to approach Vincent Falcone jr. to contribute. Working as Frank Sinatra's conductor and pianist from 1978 to 1983 (and again briefly in 1986), the July 17, 1978 was his very first studio session date with Sinatra.

Falcone who lives in Las Vegas is of course still busy touring with his Orchestra around the country and overseas, but when not touring he is at his e-mail and has frequently responded very openly and friendly to questions and mails from Sinatra fans. He also attended some Sinatra fan meetings to tell some stories about his work with Sinatra. I could imagine he will be thrilled as well to hear that those recordings have been rediscovered, and maybe would be ready to contribute to some liner notes and/or interview on the matter.

Bernhard.

While I'm thrilled to hear of newly discovered Sinatra music, and would the first in line to buy a new disc, I have to admit to feeling a bit cheated. When one spends quite a bit of money, for what is supposed to be a "complete" studio recordings box set, it's somewhat disappointing to learn it's not so "complete."

The orginal suitcases were numbered, I feel there should be some sort of proof of purchase and those with the suitcase should receive a special discount on what would be disc 21.

Just my 2 cents.

[steffen]

maybe this song , "remember" , could be a historic first try to sell a song via internet - pay per download.

it takes long to release an album, even if it is planned and recorded. in this case, there is only the raw material, i suppose.
no remastering, no track list, no cover work etc.

i guess it would take year(s) to plan and release such an album.

maybe rick could do some special pay area, and the song file could be set up within months (after clearing copyrights, royalties etc).

A download would of course be very thrilling. But what about those many many Sinatra fans at present all over the world that don't have Internet access? It would be highly unfair IMO to them to leave them 'out of the game', wouldn't it.
Also, once the new song has been spread via downloads (and of course, people will pass on downloads to others), the appeal of a new album centered around the song would probably drop notably.

Frank: I wouldn't feel cheated that much - if Reprise/Warner really searched for the recordings when preparing the 1995 release and couldn't find them, they are not to blame. Of course it would have been very nice (and IMO it could have been done easily), if the 20-CD-"suitcase" had contained a short note of reference to those studio recordings that were not included (about a dozen).

Bernhard.

[steffen]

yes, i think "remember" is too important to see a few downloads and then be spread around through file sharing.

it could be THE drawer for many fans to buy the new album, and would indeed make a terriffic title song.

i just don't see how such a project can be done 'quickly'.

This is one of the disadvantages of CD age... in vinyl age, there wouldn't have been a problem, "Remember" (with "Youu And Me" July 17 version on the flip side) could have been issued quickly, and then, let's think about and wait and see for, an album.

I think we've reached a point where Nancy could/should fill us in on what plans the family estate has on issuieng the rediscovered tracks. Maybe she will do so when returned from her present oncert trip.

Bernhard.