[Adam]

Originally posted by Bob in Boston
Nancy and Adam: Please take note!

Note taken.

Corrections made.

Adam

I just got the concepts box set on e-bay... For a good price...

Gosh, I burning all my money on Frank's CD lately!!!

Its way cheaper for me, who live in Canada, to get that from e-bay than to buy each CD individually... They are sold around 25$ each around here... I got already some of them but I want to make that boxset a "non-walkman" boxset; I listen to my CD when I walk outside and, unfortunately, they seem to live shorter for that reason... The boxset will be in the Sinatra case that I am building right now and well protected...

Next step, the complete reprise collection!!! But I better start saving right away!!!

Stephane N.

[Nick in Toronto]

Perhaps it is time that the SFF issued an officially recommended list of "Gateway" albums which offer undistorted and truly exemplory performances by FS to the curious but uninitiated listener.

Frank Sinatra let his singing do the speaking for him. It was only the various record companies that distorted his "sound" over the years which led his abilities into question.

[Juan Luis]

Originally posted by Nick in Toronto
[B]Perhaps it is time that the SFF issued an officially recommended list of "Gateway" albums which offer undistorted and truly exemplory performances by FS to the curious but uninitiated listener.

That would be grand..

Nick. I'm just wating for Capitol to announce this come Frank's 100th birthday celebration. I can sense that we'll see a huge event then, much like for Sinatra's 75th birthday.

I saw this set face to face in a store for the first time and it is quite handsome a getup but with Bob's comments about the CD's being identical to the single EOTC releases, I decided to pass. I beleive my next move is to buy a record player and to purchase the original albums, untampered, off of Ebay.

<< I saw this set face to face in a store for the first time and it is quite handsome a getup >>

David: I'm assuming you're referring to the newer (2000) box set, as pictured in the lead post of this thread. That's the one which contains discs equivalent to the individual "Entertainer of the Century" issues from 1998–2002 (remastered by Bob Norberg).

The original (1992) product was truly handsome—black hardwood "breadbox," with a fold-down front door and slide-out tray, as pictured here. (Sorry for the poor quality photo). It gave true meaning to the "box" part of "box set." If you ever come across one of these, it's worth considering, because it contains the original-issue CDs from 1987–1991 (mastered by Larry Walsh).

Here are some better photos of the earlier Concepts box set package:

Now that is a truly handsome set. Looks like something I'll keep my eyes posted on.

I have read that Capitol redid the Capitol Concepts box (16 discs) first issued in about 1992. The newer version from year 2000 which is still being sold in a slimmer book format, was remastered again (?)

There are several complaints posted on the web-- stating that so much effort was made at noise suppression in the newer set, that the highs are diminished (muffling of cymbals, etc)

Can someone tell me the history of these sets and their respective sound quality. I would think the newer set would have the better sound, not worse!

Welcome to the Sinatra Family Forum, Richard!

(You're not our first Rich from Philly, but the other one goes by the name "voice1." I suspect you'll hear from him shortly about patent infringement or some such. )

The thread for the US Capitol box sets may be found here in Frank's Recordings: Capitol Concepts 16-CD Box Set.

The original Concepts box, released in 1992, was exactly that: a wooden box. You can find some photos of it near the current end of that thread. This was simply a packaging device for the 16 contained CD's, which also were sold individually and had been released between 1987 and 1991 (except the instrumental Tone Poems Of Color, which was available only in the box set). These CD's were mastered by Larry Walsh; they are long out of print.

The later black cardboard box set (shown in the lead post of the referenced thread) contains remastered versions of the same albums, with the identical song lists and bonus tracks. This was released in 2000, and the mastering was performed by Bob Norberg. The discs in this package are digitally identical to the current individual Capitol CD's (from 1998 to 2002), which contain the "Entertainer of the Century" logo and are labelled as "20-bit" or "24-bit" remasters.

Most people do believe the EARLIER set of discs have BETTER sound, although not nearly as good as the original Capitol LP issues. You will find many discussions about this elsewhere in the Forum. (Give a yell if you can't find those yourself, and I'll dig up some links for you.)

Originally Posted by Bob

Give a yell if you can't find those yourself, and I'll dig up some links for you.

You can save your voice. Here are some reading links:

A question regarding Entertainer Of The Century CD series
Capitol Mono Widening
Sound Quality / source tape / 20 Bit
Question: remastering differences

[Warning: Audiophiles tend to be very passionate about this subject. ]

Bumping thread for new member Richard from Philly (phillyrich).

[Added Note:] Richard's thread has now been merged into the main Concepts box set thread here. Unfortunately, in so doing, the existing links to this thread have been broken throughout the Forum. Hopefully, the moderators will be able to rectify this situation soon.

[MMM]

If you don't have a decent turntable (or even if you do, and you want the CD's in one set), get the old box instead of the new one, even with its faults. It's the black wooden one...

Newer doesn't necessarily mean better! :sigh:

[MMM]

I've complained about this stuff for too long. Listen for yourself :

I've made clips from two different versions of the '56 "I've Got You Under My Skin". First is from the Bob Norberg mastered Classic Sinatra, mastered from the "wrong" tape, and subjected to lots of processing.

Bob Norberg clip


The other file is from the 3CD U.S. The Capitol Years set, mastered by Larry Walsh and produced by Ron Furmanek. This is taken from the correct master, with no echo added after the fact, and I'm guessing no or very little Eq. It could have been transferred on a better sounding tape deck, and it does have light noise reduction (skillfully applied), though none should have been used IMO. I've done VERY minor Eq on this, just to compensate for these issues and therefore bring this to life better.

Walsh/Martin clip


These clips are wav files, peak level matched. If you don't have a decent set of speakers hooked up to your computer, or good headphones to plug into it, please burn these files to a CD-R (if you can) and compare over your stereo. These should give an idea what all the complaints are about...

[MMM]

BTW - The 3CD U.S. The Capitol Years set is the ONLY CD issue that I know of that uses the correct master for tracks from Songs For Swingin' Lovers! without any echo added after the fact...

How about the tracks from "Nice 'n'Easy"? On the 3 CD "Capitol Years" 75th Birthday Celebration" each of the chosen tracks from that album are remastered as dry as tonight's martini and they sound WONDERFUL!!! No echo, no reverb. I adore those cuts.

[MMM]

Not echo drenched, yes, but you can hear "pumping" from the NoNoise in at least spots on those tracks there (can't remember if on all 3 songs though). The "texture" is lacking too, but I agree they're better on that set than the Walsh or Norberg CD's of the actual album...

****I've made clips from two different versions of the '56 "I've Got You Under My Skin". First is from the Bob Norberg mastered Classic Sinatra, mastered from the "wrong" tape, and subjected to lots of processing.
(...)
The other file is from the 3CD U.S. The Capitol Years set, mastered by Larry Walsh and produced by Ron Furmanek. This is taken from the correct master, with no echo added after the fact, and I'm guessing no or very little Eq. (..)***

Bravo

Really, cheers Martin - great idea, it (audio-wise) answers a lot of questions!

But it also raises a few questions - e.g., why all the many "newer" CD releases of this (in numbers) almost "over-released" recording (Skin) are inferior to the 1990 Capitol Years set. It's a rhetoric question, of course - Walsh knew his stuff. Norberg doesn't.

Bernhard (wearing that sticker "Larry Walsh forever" )

[MMM]

Glad you liked the clips.

Again, the "Walsh" version here was tweaked slightly by me, with a bit of very judicious Eq, and I brought the peak level up to about 1/2 db below 0. I just don't want to get things too mixed up...

We also have Ron Furmanek to thank for the use of the correct tapes, and not adding more echo. I can also blame him and/or Larry for their choice of tape deck used on the transfer and the unnecessary use of NoNoise (however light and skillfully applied here) on such a great sounding tape where none was necessary, but at least they got as much right as they did for the Swingin' Lovers! tracks on that set, which seems to have eluded other's attempts...

Originally Posted by MMM

I've complained about this stuff for too long. Listen for yourself :

I've made clips from two different versions of the '56 "I've Got You Under My Skin". First is from the Bob Norberg mastered Classic Sinatra, mastered from the "wrong" tape, and subjected to lots of processing.

Bob Norberg clip


The other file is from the 3CD U.S. The Capitol Years set, mastered by Larry Walsh and produced by Ron Furmanek. This is taken from the correct master, with no echo added after the fact, and I'm guessing no or very little Eq. It could have been transferred on a better sounding tape deck, and it does have light noise reduction (skillfully applied), though none should have been used IMO. I've done VERY minor Eq on this, just to compensate for these issues and therefore bring this to life better.

Walsh/Martin clip


These clips are wav files, peak level matched. If you don't have a decent set of speakers hooked up to your computer, or good headphones to plug into it, please burn these files to a CD-R (if you can) and compare over your stereo. These should give an idea what all the complaints are about...

Bump

And Martin that is what I call damming evidence. I am very thankful to have my Larry Walsh copy of that disk