[TheVoice]

Hi Bernhard,

I have not yet heard the cd but [DELETED].

So, I didn't know that the level change from one song to another.

Making an official album live concert is not an easy way for several reasons and particularly two :

- the quality of singer's performance who is not the same every day at any date.

- the quality of recording sound during the concert.

From these two considerations, you make an official live album an you should take songs from different dates because of the voice and because of the sound.

I think everybody is ok with this.

But, as it is an official album commercializing like concert live, they cannot mention these details. If they did it should be : Live songs from Concerts à Golden Nugget and not Live from Golden Nugget etc...

Anyway, if the sound is not always good and linear, it's a problem of people who made the record.

See you,

Pierre

Hmmh, I donn't think that mentioning it's a compilation album would have to lead to a change in the album's title... Live From Las Vegas is pretty ok either way, in my opinion. Many of the best live albums in history, including Sinatra's "Live At The Sands" or the multi-Grammy-winning "Judy At Carnegie Hall" (1961) were actually compilations and/or edited programmes rather than 'original concerts as performed'. [Judy's original Carnegie show finally came out in 2000].

Personally, I like an "original" unedited concert better (including its possible weaknesses), but that might be just a matter of taste. For a project intended to appeal to a broader audience, depending on the material that's there it might be the better choice to go for a compilation and put the best versions of each song on the record, as long as you still recreate the original sequence the programme was performed in. The latter was done in this case (the song programme on the new CD exactly matches the line-up of songs performed on December 27, 1986), and also, it includes those songs that FS performed only once during the five-day run of the engagement (i.e. One To A Customer and My Way), hence also offers all the "rarities" that derived from the engagement. ("My Way" being a rarity in this context because of the very different high-note approach FS takes on the final line).

I don't see the point in not disclosing the info on the album that it is a compilation, especially when listening to the album makes it easily obvious that it is one, sound-wise. If the info is made, it could help to take away all those critics who say the album pretends to be something it isn't.

Depending on what kind of source material is there, or how it is marked/stored, it can of course also happen that while you have several reels (or whatever) of shows, it isn't easily detectable anymore which reel comes from which date. In that case, I think a short line just saying that the songs come from different nights wouldn't hurt the appeal of the product, either.

Bernhard.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Of course our discussion here must be limited to what is "officially" available to everyone.

The general public does not have "bootlegs" of the entire engagement.

They cannot make such comparisons.

We are also prohibited from such discussion by the rules of our forum.

[TheVoice]

Personally, I like an "original" unedited concert better (including its possible weaknesses), but that might be just a matter of taste.

I agree with you but this is not acceptable for general public.

I think a short line just saying that the songs come from different nights wouldn't hurt the appeal of the product

"Sinatra at the sands" album doesn't mention the different nights
It's the same for "The Main Event" album.

[Jeffrey Simmons]

I personally think when you have a 'live' album, which purports to be an entire live performance, but the exact date of the performance is not especially highlighted, as in the case of this new album, which I have yet to acquire, then I think that there must be some licence to allow its producers the freedom to include subsituted versions of some of the best possible performances of a particular song, so as to make that particular commercial release of the show as enjoyable as possible.

I frankly think that it is very hard, if not often almost impossible for the average listener to identify that particular items come from different performances. (I have however heard that in this case of the GN CD there are some noticeable sound quality changes throughout which kind of gives it away which is a shame)

Certainly such substitutions never really spoiled my enjoyment of 'Sinatra At The Sands' and it somewhat enhanced my enjoyment of 'The Main Event' album, although in that latter case, if it was up to me, I might even have substituted more from that original televised October 13th performance, so they would have had to change the name of the album altogether. Pity - but it was just not, vocally speaking, one of his best nights.

Nevertheless, I am sure that this new CD will be intereting and enjoyable to have and hear and I look forward to getting hold of it.

[Nancy]

"Bill Zehme, a wonderful writer, was hired to compose the liner notes for the Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin Las Vegas CD's by EMI. Unfortunately, Bill's mother passed away during this time and he was unable to complete the notes for the Sinatra CD.

With a deadline fast approaching, EMI asked if they could excerpt a section from 'The Sinatra Treasures' and if I would write an addendum for the notes; which I did.

As far as the information contained in the notes; it clearly states 'The performance on this CD is from Sinatra's December 1986 engagement..." While there was incorrect speculation before the CD was released on the dates of the show - no where in the CD do we imply this is a complete concert from a specific night.

I'm sorry of some fans are disappointed that each track date and every musician is not listed in the notes. However, if you look at all the official releases of 'live' material that was released during Frank Sinatra's lifetime (Sands 1966, Main Event 1974, etc...) those notes never contained such information.

In doing these projects we always look to the past and see how things were done while Frank Sinatra was alive; we try and adhere to that standard. If some fans are unhappy with that, so be it. I think we will always follow the direction of FS and producers such as Sonny Burke and Don Costa regardless of what a few 'historians' feel should be done. It is as simple as that."

[MAP 55]

....More "Sinatra GOLD" for all to enjoy!

[TheVoice]

if you look at all the official releases of 'live' material that was released during Frank Sinatra's lifetime (Sands 1966, Main Event 1974, etc...) those notes never contained such information.

It's just what I said this afternoon on the other side of atlantic sea in my post ahead

[Duncan]

Barbra Streisand's "Timeless Live In Concert" CD from 2000 was a complete concert from just one night. It is very impressive that any performer can be so sure of his/her performance for 30 songs all in one evening.

Her 1994 "The Concert" album was also recorded on one night at Madison Square Garden. Although, I think on this occasion songs were added from earlier dates in her tour simply because they were omitted from the New York concerts. So even then, it wasn't because of a poor performance.

Streisand is of course very different to Sinatra. She does a tour about once ever five or six years, he was constantly touring. Her concerts must be so over planned, right down to the last breath that she can have the confidence in her performance to commit to a recording before she goes on stage. She probably plans the show years in advance.

Anyway, my point was that her concert recordings are amongst some of the most impressive I have heard. She always utilizes a full 60 piece orchestra with arrangements by the likes of Nelson Riddle and Don Costa. Her voice is always immaculate.

Like Sinatra, she is not just a singer, but an actor too. In her own words, she is "an actress who sings..."

If you like live albums, then both "The Concert" and "Timeless" are worth a listen.

Lena Horne's "The Lady And Her Music" is another great live album.

One last point, Streisand's performance of "Being Alive" in her 2000 MGM Grand concert is stellar. One of the best live performances on record.

[TheVoice]

Ok Dunc' but why don't you make a thread specially on Streisand ?

[Duncan]

Because I am making a valid input into this discussion about live performances.

[Duncan]

It must be extremely frustrating when you produce an album like this, which is in my opinion the best thing we have had from Sinatra for 10 years, and fans continue to moan that it's not "quite" what they want. Charles Pignone did a superb job in my opinion. Also, the liner notes are much more detailed than the notes for either Sands or Main Event.

It is an all round GREAT buy.

And I really enjoyed reading the liner notes, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I thought they had a "concert programme" feel about them.

Great stuff.

[TheVoice]

I agree with you Dunc'

Thanks for posting Pignone's input here. It helps to understand his position on the matter. Also, thanks for the info re Zehme. I'm very sure he would have done an excellent job.

Bernhard.

[George Lyons]

Just for the "record", I need to repeat that IMHO, I think this cd is primo in ALL respects!!!

[steffen]

i am sorry if any person involved in the production of this wonderful CD feels frustrated by remarks from this forum. it's not my aim to make anyone feel bad personally. i criticise the output, 'caus i can't look behind producion curtains. i stated what i liked, and also pointed out what i disliked.

having said that, i find it strange if i find myself forced by various members to think about a possible hurt producer ego, while i as a paying customer (and more so a fan) have been living with frustrations for many years. you may label me as one who is only "bemoaning" or you may say "take it or shut up". but i was brought up with the belief that the customers' happiness comes first - otherwise you can shut up your business. if a producer in any kind of business takes these criticisms as personal attacks rather than most valuable information to improve his product, it's a pity. frank sinatras' product deserves to be the best there is. and while an album may not have had extensive liner notes 30 years ago, that's no reason to not add them now if the wonderful possibility of a new release comes along.

just to give you the opportunity to understand why i - and only i personally - felt frustrated sometimes up til now, i want to list a few of the things that "happend" to me CD-wise, maybe didn't happen to others.

- my first live CD "live at the sands" had an audible harsh skip during the monologue, a whole word missing.
- my video of the 1985 japan show had a sound error so that i could not hear the orchestra and frank sounded like live from out of a watering can.
- my pressing of the 1959 australian concert has a wrong instrumental track listing.
- on the expensive first edition of the complete reprise recordings, the glue of the numbered badge came off quickly.
- the 60s tv specials DVDs have a worse picture quality than the original VHS, real color erosions in parts.

yes, faults happen, and a problem really seems to be the production deadline. i know this from my own professional experience, lack of time often kills better results. but hey, i will do anything to point those things out. 'caus if it goes unnoticed now, it certainly won't be improved next time.

i will buy my Franks' work anyway.

please, don't be angry; because i think what you creative people accomplished during the last 10 years has given us fans more (merchandise-wise) than the last 10 years during sinatras own lifetime as a performer. i thank you for those many enjoyable experiences.

[Newsdawg2002]

....let's enjoy the show.

All the "critiques" of this album have not prevented me from enjoying this CD to it's fullest.

You clamor for new, unreleased, material and what happens?

"My porridge is too cold!" "My porridge is too hot!"

Enough, already. Instead of trying to analyze this recording down to it's last note and quibble about which show "this song" was taken from and which show "that song" was taken from, what has happened to the simple joy of listening to a Man and His Music?

Or have we forgotten that?

This CD is the first NEW FS material we've had in a while. Enjoy it for what it is.

[melodym]

I just got the CD yesterday and I'm thrilled with it.

I really don't care about the songs, the sound levels, whether or not he was in good voice, etc. It's Frank....I'm happy. Simple as that.

Melody

[Yvonne]

Originally posted by melodym
I really don't care about the songs, the sound levels, whether or not he was in good voice, etc. It's Frank....I'm happy. Simple as that.

Exactly my feelings, Melody I'm so pleased with this CD.

[melodym]

Yvonne -

I knew I liked you! He's our Frank...that's all there is to it! I think it's called unconditional love!

Melody