Originally posted by Jeffrey Simmons
I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that the Film Multitrack recordings were used on the film but not on the LP nor the Hollywood Box set. I wondered if there are also some other now digital versions of the Capitol LP tape recordings now on CD because e.g. the version of 'Well Did You Ever" that I have on my Capitol sountrack LP omits Bing's inserted comment "You Must Be One Of The Newer Fellows" but this is included, for example, in the version on "The Singles" set.

Jeffrey, I believe you have several things wrong here. (I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I, too, am wrong. )

First of all, three of the four Sinatra songs were recorded once—and only once—onto 35 mm magnetic film at M-G-M in January 1956. Only "You're Sensational" was re-recorded at Capitol later, in April. The Capitol soundtrack LP of High Society was mastered from the film versions of the first three tracks and the studio version of the fourth one. The fact that they sound different on the LP and CD issues is solely the result of less than ideal mixing. For the In Hollywood box, Chuck went back to the original film masters for these songs (except "Mind If I Make Love To You," which was unavailable). IMO, they sound sensational (if you'll pardon the pun); there's just no comparison to anything Capitol has produced.

WRT "Well, Did You Evah" and Bing's line "You must be one of the newer fellows"...

The line appeared in the film and in the original MONO issue of the Capitol soundtrack album. For some reason, it was edited out of the STEREO album version and the 45 single. (The single was further edited for time, with almost one minute removed.) That line is NOT included in The Complete Capitol Singles Collection; that box set uses the stereo album version. You can hear the line on the CD version provided in Sinatra 80th: All The Best from 1995. The short single version has never appeared on CD.

The only thing that confuses me is why the newly remastered In Hollywood version has also been edited: to remove Crosby's line and the instrumental intro. Chuck?

[Ronald Sarbo]

I believe Bing's line was not part of the actual "recording" but was spoken by him in the scene itself.

That would make sense, Ron, to explain why we don't hear the line in Chuck's remaster, i.e., if that was based only on the musical elements.

Also, because we DO hear the line on the original mono LP, then perhaps that originated from the composite total movie soundtrack, while the stereo LP version was remixed from the multitrack film music recording?

However, that leaves the version on Sinatra 80th: All The Best, which I think is in stereo. (I don't have it handy to listen to.) Perhaps the line was ADDED back into that one?

Awaiting Chuck's return for the (hopefully) definitive answers...

[Chuck Granata]

Bob and Ron have done as good a job as I could explaining a very confusing topic, and they are correct.

The original 35-mm magnetic film recordings for High Scoiety range from one to fifteen tracks (in some cases, a single track was used for a percussion accent; in others, there are vocals and full orchestra spead out over multiple tracks.)

From what Didier and I were able to verify, Capitol used the M-G-M recordings for High Society and Capitol received them as two-and three-track mixdowns.

The spoken line ("You must be one of the newer fellows") was recorded on the film stage as Bing and Frank were filming the scene. All of their singing in the song was prerecorded, though, so there's a difference in tone and fidelity. It was apparently given to Capitol and they used it on some issues, and not others (probably for reasons of timing.)

When we remixed the High Society tracks, they sounded spectacular. We matched our mixes against the mixed film track and Capitol's stereo version, but since we were using the unmixed multitrack masters we were able to open them up and let them breathe a little more than Capitol could. We used our judgement and made certain elements a little louder, and created what we felt was a more realistic spread between Bing and Frank. When it came time to decide on inserting the famiuliar spoken line, both of us felt that its comparatively poor sonics would distract from the beautiful fidelity of the multitracks we were mixing, and thus opted to leave it out.

Capitol edited it out of the stereo tapes because in mono it's much easier to mask a deficiency, or a change in recording quality. Then too, on both the film and the original LPs it would have been less noticeable given the technology and playback equipment of the time. If you're mixing in stereo, and in digital, all of the recording's flaws are accentuated along with the beautiful parts.

[Chuck Granata]

Another thought...

I'll discuss "Pal Joey" and "Can-Can" in another post. But, it bears mentioning that when Didier and I remixed the Capitol soundtracks for "King and I," "Oklahoma!" and "Carousel" (which we did for EMI/Angel in 2000), we made some observations.

For "King and I" Capitol provided their unmixed three-track tapes, which had been provided to them in 1956 by the film studio. For the most part, they were really two-track recordings, with an occasional third-track.
Capitol provided similar tapes for "Oklahoma!"

In both cases above, we also transferred and used the original 35-mm magnetic film recordingom the film studios. These were, like "High Society," multitracks of excellent fidelity.

There were obvious discrepancies, however, between some of the orchestrations that Capitol used on the official soundtrack LPs and what was used in the film (and, consequently, what we found on the film masters.) Since there isn't a whole lot of surviving paperwork at Capitol, it made things awfully confusing.

For "Carousel" things were a mess, but that's another story for another day...

[Ronald Sarbo]

I believe that the "High Society" soundtracks were the first stereo recordings for both Bing and Sinatra.

Their joint debut in stereo.

[Chuck Granata]

Jeff,

I understand the appeal of the separation you mention on the Capitol tapes from "High Society." There's a definite charm to the ultra-hard left-and-right speaker panning that was very common in the 1950s. I still love listening to "Meet the Beatles" as I heard it as a kid, with its hard-left/hard-right panning.

It is rather old-fashioned, and few engineers I know do it unless they're trying to achieve a very specific effect (or they're duplicating a classic mix, i. e. the recent American release of "Meet the Beatles.")

When we played the vocal only tracks, it was startling to hear just Frank coming from one speaker, and just Bing from the other. The quality and presence of the recording is so great that it seemed as though they were standing across the room, talking and singing into microphones in front of us. Once we began fooling around with mixing all of the individual elements, it made sense to fold them in a bit so they were closer together. In fact, I distinctly recall Didier and I agreeing that in the film they're standing next to each other and that the scene (visually) should be our guide.

Hope this little explanation adds a bit more to your appreciation for both mixes!

[Ronald Sarbo]

Interesting that this year is the 50th Anniversary of "High Society" as well as the Capitol Tower.

What a year 1956 was!

[Judy]

What a year 1956 was!

For SOME people...

It wouldn't just be a significant BIRTHDATE now, would it?

[Judy]

Just for Ron...oh, and Stranger56...

I just listened to the version of "Well, Did You Evah?" on the 1995 double-CD compilation, Sinatra 80th: All The Best, and that is indeed monaural (not stereo, as I surmised above). That explains perfectly why Bing's extra line is included: This track was mastered from the tapes used for the mono version of the High Society soundtrack LP.

Also, as Chuck stated, the spoken line has a distinctly different tone and fidelity than the rest of the recording. It is quite obvious when listening through headphones.

I also listened to the version on the 1996 four-disc box set, The Complete Capitol Singles Collection: That one is stereo, with the "ping pong" effect of Frank's and Bing's voices coming from opposite channels, and it does not include the spoken line. So, this track was mastered from the same sources as the stereo version of the soundtrack LP.

Q.E.D.

P.S. The stereo version on Chuck's and Didier's In Hollywood box set sounds amazingly better than either of the above described Capitol tracks (IMO, of course).

All of the above goes to show what an incredible difference is made by the audio mixing and remastering process. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the efforts of Messrs. Deutsch and Granata and the engineers with whom they work.

[Chuck Granata]

Moving on to our Pal Joseph...

The Capitol "soundtrack" album was a mish-mosh. Some film recordings, some Capitol rerecordings; some true stereo, some fake. What a mess!

I have no idea why Capitol substituted the commercial "The Lady is A Tramp" for the film version, or why they didn't use the film version of "There's A Small Hotel."
Within the context of the film (and the soundtrack, if we're to consider it an extension of the film) the film recordings of these songs are superior and should have been on the Capitol album.

Columbia Pictures recorded the film tracks in stereo. They deteriorated, and a couple of years before we began doing our research on sonic elements, the studio discarded them. This left the release print soundtrack as the sole source. It was mono, and had numerous overlays of dialog and sound effects which marred the music. It was a deep disappointment to learn that COlumbia Pics never transferred the music to tape in all the years they sat there.

USC once had the mono reference discs from director George Sidney's collection, but through the years they went missing. A film music historian who was friends with Sidney and had transferred many of his reference discs to open reel tape before they went to USC generously dug them out and they became (with some work) what you hear on the box set.

[Chuck Granata]

Bob,

Your generous compliments are appreciated - the fact that you, Jeffrey and others care enough about the audio to notice the difference and discuss it articulately makes what we do worthwhile.

We used several engineers, in both Los Angeles and New York, while working on the Hollywood box set. The credit for helping us achieve a beautiful mix on the High Society tracks goes to Jen Wyler at Sony Music Studios NYC. Doug Schwartz, whose father Wilbur Schwartz played reeds in the original Glenn Miller band and who played on most of Frank Sinatra's Capitol sessions, was our remix engineer in Los Angeles (Doug synchronized and remixed the 1940s M-G-M tracks which appear in stereo; he also remixed The Tender Trap cuts with us.)
Andreas Meyer did much of the transfer and restoration work in New York, and the overall mastering - the critical component - was done by Darcy Proper at Sony NYC.

[Chuck Granata]

To round out the Capitol soundtrack trio, I'll mention "Can-Can" now.

Twentieth Century-Fox was the least cooperative of the film studios. In fact, they provided NOTHING for us to work with. The only reason we used the Fox track that we did use was because Capitol had the contractual rights.

For Can-Can Capitol provided us with unmixed three-track tapes. Because of our knowledge from the Rodgers & Hammerstein work, we know that the originals are likely multitrack film elements. Although the three-tracks that Capitol has been using since 1960 were not perfect, we were able to clean them up. We even restored a few moments that were cut from the original Capitol soundtrack LP. Not much more to say about this one...

[Ronald Sarbo]

Chuck: You are without a doubt the jack LORD of Sinatra.

[Chuck Granata]

Ron: clever, clever...! Ya gotta get up pretty early in the mornin' to fool that Ron Sarbo...

Chuck

[shicorp]

Originally posted by Chuckster
To round out the Capitol soundtrack trio, I'll mention "Can-Can" now.

Twentieth Century-Fox was the least cooperative of the film studios. In fact, they provided NOTHING for us to work with. The only reason we used the Fox track that we did use was because Capitol had the contractual rights.

For Can-Can Capitol provided us with unmixed three-track tapes. Because of our knowledge from the Rodgers & Hammerstein work, we know that the originals are likely multitrack film elements. Although the three-tracks that Capitol has been using since 1960 were not perfect, we were able to clean them up. We even restored a few moments that were cut from the original Capitol soundtrack LP. Not much more to say about this one...

I still don't get it, that Fox was so incooperative on this project, while they have released dozens of vintage soundtrack releases during the last years (and licenced them to other labels). I guess, this material will now never see the daylight...

[Judy]

I believe Bing's line was not part of the actual "recording" but was spoken by him in the scene itself.

While it's not of appropriate audio quality, in watching the film (and listening to an old 45 I picked up when I was 10 or 12), that line and Frank's reaction to it are precious! I love it!