Judy, I'm curious:

Is the spoken line really in the 45 single? Most sources I've read say that it was deleted (along with about one minute's worth of the song.)

[Ronald Sarbo]

Bob: There is a 45 as well as a 45 EP that has full version in MONO.

When it comes to Bing always defer to "The Lady In Red" as the Ultimate Authority.

[Judy]

Ultimate authority? Hardly...but if my feeble memory serves me well, the 45 that as a kid I used to lip-synch to (a very thin friend joined me in the duet) includes it...the 45 I had is probably an original, as it was a gift to me from a uncle who collected Crosby..

With all due respect to the lady in red, I'm still confused.

Will Friedwald states in his appreciation piece, "Songs For Swingin' Singles," which accompanies The Complete Capitol Singles Collection :

When Capitol mixed these four tracks as singles, still more changes were made: [...] "Well, Did You Evah?" has some additional dialogue cut — in fact, it's the film's most famous line. When Sinatra sings, "Don't dig that kind of croonin' chum," Crosby originally retorted, "You must be one of the newer fellahs!" The line has been sliced from the 45.

Friedwald goes on to lament the quality of the 45 singles issues. I have at least two other discographical sources which indicate the line is missing from the single. Are they all wrong? I don't own the single, which has never been reissued on CD in its abbreviated format, so I can't verify this for myself.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Will may not have ALL 45 singles or 45 EPs with "High Society" material.

[Judy]

Ugh..well, I SUPPOSE I could go home, dust off the turntable and dig out the 45, which hasn't been played in 30 years...and verify... Will's not as old as me, so perhaps my years of lip-synching to old 45s beats his collector's notes any day!

Ron: Are you saying there may be some 45's with the line and some without?

Judy: From my own experience with lip-synching records from my childhood, I tend to believe you are correct. (I listened to some of Sinatra's Capitol LPs so many times in my youth, that today I can pretty much "name that tune" in no more than three notes, no matter how long it's been since I last heard it.) It would be interesting to know for sure, if you have the inclination to dust off that old 45.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Bob: Yes because besides the 45 single there was also the 45 box set of the album as well as 45 EPs of the album.

I do not know which VERSION the "Lady In Red" has but I do not doubt her word because when it comes to "Things Bing" she has the goods and then some.

[Judy]

Well, I COULD ask his kids to be sure...?

[Ronald Sarbo]

Bing's kids?

[Gregory]

[Judy]

Yes, Ronald - why is that so funny? In my conversations and visits with them, their dad is highly loved, respected, talked about, pictured...you get my drift, I think? Or are you still confused about that Russ guy and it's muddling all your thought processes?

[Ronald Sarbo]

Judy: I find it very difficult to focus on your posts and your avatar at the same time.

Ron: You need to raise your focus. A-hem.

[Dean]

Ron: If Bob's suggestion does not suffice, try covering your left eye whilst pondering the posts of "The Lady In Red".

Peace, Dean

[Ronald Sarbo]

Judy has very beautiful eyes....so I've been told.

[Jeffrey Simmons]

Originally posted by Chuckster
Jeff,

I understand the appeal of the separation you mention on the Capitol tapes from "High Society." There's a definite charm to the ultra-hard left-and-right speaker panning that was very common in the 1950s. I still love listening to "Meet the Beatles" as I heard it as a kid, with its hard-left/hard-right panning.

It is rather old-fashioned, and few engineers I know do it unless they're trying to achieve a very specific effect (or they're duplicating a classic mix, i. e. the recent American release of "Meet the Beatles.")

When we played the vocal only tracks, it was startling to hear just Frank coming from one speaker, and just Bing from the other. The quality and presence of the recording is so great that it seemed as though they were standing across the room, talking and singing into microphones in front of us. Once we began fooling around with mixing all of the individual elements, it made sense to fold them in a bit so they were closer together. In fact, I distinctly recall Didier and I agreeing that in the film they're standing next to each other and that the scene (visually) should be our guide.

Hope this little explanation adds a bit more to your appreciation for both mixes!

Chuck, Bob, Ron and others - Wow this is fascinating stuff and I'm so grateful to all of you for joining in and setting me straight.

I will listen again to The Capitol Singles because my original impression of the High Society tracks was not good. I thought I might have a different pressing to you guys because mine was made in Europe - it sounded mono and rather flat and certainly not as clear as I remember my Soundtrack album. (I need to compare these tracks to the Hollywood set versions.)

Now Chuck you are so right - I do prefer the wider stereo separation that Capitol did so brilliantly years back. One has to remember that I am no spring chicken, I was brought up listening to this stuff - so when I now hear a version that does'nt sound the same, well somehow it just does'nt sound right to me.

I do agree that the High Society tracks sound very good on the Hollywood set, although I still would have preferred that original separation. We used to listen years ago at my folks' home to a rather good stereo system with some rather large and very heavy wooden speakers built into the furniture - the stereo imaging was very good and the sound often appeared to come from the centre of the wall - it was grand when one heard differnt singers like Bing and Frank come from different sides of the room.

It never really sounded out of place or different from the movie just because in the movie Big and Frank were closer together in the same room. (Remember, we never had DVD's or stereo home movie set ups when I first listened to those Capitol LP's. Even now when one listens to a Soundtrack album - you do that on the stereo or in the car on on the Ipod or Walkman - so its not like watching the movie at all.) Of course, in any event, there was always a little of each singer in both of the speakers but the overall effect I have to maintain was, at least for myself, very enjoyable indeed - at least to our younger ears back then at home in those days when I had the time to listen a lot more than now. Even more enojoyable to listen to was the old Capitol and early Reprise three track stereo which Chuck mentioned previously when the orchestra sounded very separated as if it was in the room and standing on both sides with FS in the middle.

It is very sad to hear from Chuck what happened to the "Pal Joey" stereo recordings. It sounds as if they are lost forever. The mono version of the movie is now probably the best we will get since the stereo elements are now missing.

As to the "Can Can" tracks, I have yet to hear these on the Hollywood set and I will revert back to you when I have done so. One point I would make is that one of the rarest tracks on Capitol is "Its Alright With Me". I think that is an absolutely sensational recording - but you very rarely ever see it on any compilations. Also the duet with Shirley Maclaine "Let's Do It" used to be so popular some years ago, but now its almost as rare as the dodo. I'm sure that it was released as a single at one time but it certainly does not appear on the Singles set. Can Can was a great FS movie and I for one would like to see a fully restored version on a multi disk DVD with all the possible extras - especially the making of documentary and the film of the Kruschev visit to the set.

[Jeffrey Simmons]

Originally posted by Bob in Boston
Jeffrey, I believe you have several things wrong here. (I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I, too, am wrong. )

First of all, three of the four Sinatra songs were recorded once—and only once—onto 35 mm magnetic film at M-G-M in January 1956. Only "You're Sensational" was re-recorded at Capitol later, in April. The Capitol soundtrack LP of High Society was mastered from the film versions of the first three tracks and the studio version of the fourth one. The fact that they sound different on the LP and CD issues is solely the result of less than ideal mixing. For the In Hollywood box, Chuck went back to the original film masters for these songs (except "Mind If I Make Love To You," which was unavailable). IMO, they sound sensational (if you'll pardon the pun); there's just no comparison to anything Capitol has produced.

WRT "Well, Did You Evah" and Bing's line "You must be one of the newer fellows"...

The line appeared in the film and in the original MONO issue of the Capitol soundtrack album. For some reason, it was edited out of the STEREO album version and the 45 single. (The single was further edited for time, with almost one minute removed.) That line is NOT included in The Complete Capitol Singles Collection; that box set uses the stereo album version. You can hear the line on the CD version provided in Sinatra 80th: All The Best from 1995. The short single version has never appeared on CD.

The only thing that confuses me is why the newly remastered In Hollywood version has also been edited: to remove Crosby's line and the instrumental intro. Chuck?

I can't remember Bob what I was thinking but I think my point was that on the Hollywood set, when it comes to the High Society tracks, Chuck mainly used the recordings that were issued on the soundtrack LP not all the ones fromn the movie. Of course Chuck went on to use new mixes from the high quality elements but as I said these were not exactly all the tracks as they are heard in the Movie. I wondered why "You're Sensational', for example, was not the track from the film, rather than the one from the album? It was my understanding that FS re-recorded the song from the movie soundtrack at Capitol because he was not happy with Johnny Green's arrangement and wanted to redo the song with Riddle. It then turned out that the Capitol recording appeared on the Capitol album. (I do not know how much of that is true or false.)

Conversely, however, when it came to 'Pal Joey', Chuck so far as possible prefered using the recordings which actually came from the movie track and not only the recordings that eventually appeared on the Soundtrack album - notwithstanding its shortcomings. This is what i thought was interesting and I wanted to learn the reason for this.

[Jeffrey Simmons]

I have noted Chuck's comments about there not being a full recording of this wonderful track at Capitol.

Now either my memory is playing tricks with me or I'm very wrong but my recollection is that I have heard the FULL Capitol recording of Soliloquy. It was in three distinct recorded parts put together but not spliced into one recording. I was very young and in the 1970's some old collector I once met played it to me or maybe even gave it to me. I could almost swear that I have heard this before and, who knows, I might even have it somewhere - although do not count on me finding it soon. Are you certain that a full recording was never made and if so what could I possibly have heard? (Note - it was not the Columbia or Reprise versions - because I know these far too well)

[Ronald Sarbo]

The 3 parts still do not comprise a FULL version.

I believe Chuck tried to make a "seamless" recording from those parts but it is still unfortunately incomplete.