It's available thru half.com anywhere from $9.99 to $18.99. That's where I purchase the majority of my CD's, some used, some new.

Hope this helps! Just put my commission check toward the Sinatra Foundation of the Arts!

[Ronald Sarbo]

What boogles the mind is how this album that was so ill conceived gets so much discussion and great Sinatra albums are hardly discussed.

Well, Ron -- start a discussion on a Sinatra cd you enjoy and why. I'd like to see some cd discussions... at least WATERTOWN has generated some discussion.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Watertown generates discussion only because many Sinatra fans cannot accept that one album out of the many great ones he made was so dismal a failure.

Since when, Ronald, do Sinatra fans agree on each topic? I fell in love with Watertown on first listening (a borrowed LP in the late 80s when the album was impossible to get in European record shops) and I still think it's a masterpiece.

No I'm not the type of "everything by FS is by itself great" kind of aficionado - for instance, the 1967 Reprise LP "The World We Knew" is nadir in my opinion, and better don't ask me about the disco attempts from 1977.

There you go!

Bernhard.

[Ronald Sarbo]

The World We Knew is a masterpiece compared tp Watertown.

You see: That's how much opinions can differ, Ronald. And because they always differ, discussion is a good thing, don't you think so.

Regarding "The World We Knew", I disagree with your rating. The 1967 LP is no concept work I think, and while Watertown has its failures because the ambitious concept (maybe the most ambitious one FS ever followed in his Reprise career?) is not overall represented by the actual album, artistically it ranges far above, as far as my tuppence are concerned.

Bernhard.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Bernhard: His most ambitious projects on Reprise had to be The Concert Sinatra, I Remember Tommy, Trilogy, Jobim Sessions, you name it.

Watertown resulted in Sinatra deciding to retire.

When his voice was still in excellent shape.

That is the tragedy of it.

World We Knew has Drinking Again.

What on Watertown comes remotely close?

"Most ambitious" I meant concept-wise, story-wise... I cannot think of a more ambitious concept than putting to record (ok originally it was planned as a TV special) a real "sung book" so to speak, where the individual song sometimes doesn't even make too much sense if not listened to in the context/order of the whole album. In fact, maybe "A Man Alone" aside, I cannot even think of another Sinatra pre-retirement record that follows such (over-?) ambitious a line. "The Future" (1979) comes close.

Musically and performance-wise, of course many of the Reprise albums (certainly not "The World We Knew") transcend Watertown and you know me well enough, I think, to not to be surprised that I agree on that.

"The World We Knew" is a compilation-type of album - it has one outstanding (Drinking Again), some good (This Is My Love), some average (This Is My Song), and quite some rotten (Some Enchanted Evening, Don't Sleep In The Subway). Again all my own 2p only.

Bernhard.

[Ronald Sarbo]

Bernhard: Of course I agree.

My feeling is that Sinatra fans feel they have to defend Watertown the way Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett felt they had to defend the Alamo.

Watertown resulted in Sinatra deciding to retire.>>

Thats because it was so great he knew he couldn't top it and he had to retire..

I can't listen to it, its that bad. Am I nuts? Have I no taste? Or am I just willing to concede that everything FS did was not a masterpiece.

Phil

[Ronald Sarbo]

Phil: I agree. Sinatra had not suffered such a reversal of fortune since Mama Will Bark.

He opted out of recording and public performance.

I think there was other contemporary material he could have sung besides Watertown that would have been accepted.

Best, Ron.

***My feeling is that Sinatra fans feel they have to defend Watertown ***

I don't think it needs defense - but again that's personal taste. Like it or loathe it! As always with music.

Most of the Sinatra fans I know hate Watertown and don't raise a finger for its defense. I just like the album hence don't write about it but in a positive way, and I still think Sinatra delivered some of his most poignant vocals ever on this album.

Bernhard.

<<the 1967 Reprise LP "The World We Knew" is nadir in my opinion>>

Well, dear heart, had to glean the ole' Thesaurus on that one! And kindly don't anyone ever state we FAS forum members don't LEARN from this site, vocab included, along w/Mr.S. info!

And Ron, my dear, are we being defensive? It doesn't seem that way to me--strickly personal opinions and how this album effects each of us. I pasionately love Watertown and always will -- listen to it at least once a week prior to retiring.
So be it!

And sweet Kathy--what a lovely blond you are! Sweet photograph--isn't it nifty to see the "real" person behind the pen? I think Phill and Bernard and Ron and many, many others should do the same! Perhaps we have begun a "reality" trend!!! After all, it seems to work on TV! Then these handsome forum gentlemen won't be hiding their "raw" sexuality!



Lux

[Ronald Sarbo]

How anyone could like what resulted from its release is beyond me.

How anyone could listen it when there is the rest of the Sinatra universe to listen to is beyond me.

Excepting the Future from Trilogy of course.

The absolute nadir.

Best, Ron.

My biggest problem with Watertown is the weakness of the material. You seldom see FS do a whole album of songs written by one author, and even when he did it was material that spanned a vast amount of time.

The 'songs' that comprise Watertown were written by the same person or persons for a specific purpose is a very short time, and it shows. Thats why all the material sounds the same, you can hardly distinguish one from another. Even the genius of Frank Sinatra couldn't save it. Why he agreed to do it is beyond me.

But even Michaelangelo had a clunker here and there..

Phil

I'm a long time fan of Watertown having purchased the original album around 1970.

I agree that there are no classic songs like there are in "Wee Small hours". At the same time if you take that album track by track it creates sad and moving story.

Think of the songs on the album as a sting quartet. Individually the members are not the greatest soloists but as a unit they are magnificent.

Because of this album I became a fan of lyricist Jake Homes. Recently I was able to pick up sealed copies a some of his albums that I had lost. I converted them to CD. After thirty years they still move me.

Here's an older discussion re WATERTOWN - Mary Todd may wish to include it in her upcoming book on the album:

http://www.sinatrafamily.com/forum/s...ight=watertown

Beautiful, heartbreaking WATERTOWN. Tears me up.

How sad that singers of FS' and Peggy Lee's caliber were recording superb contemporary albums in the late 60s /early 70s
and seeing them go nowhere.

Last week I heard TAPESTRY on CD for the first time. What a God-awful experience - and to think that I must've already wasted at least a dog-year of my life (back then) listening to Carole King braying like a donkey as she pounded that wretched piano. And it sold in the billions.

No wonder Frank took a break from recording!

Does anyone have any reviews to post on WATERTOWN? It would be interesting to see some of the critical reviews.

Rick, do you know if there is any consideration to having a section on the site for reviews of albums?

Lois -- thanks.

"If you see a job that needs to be done, then that's your job."!!!

No plans as far as I know for separate reviews, but the threads would be greatly enhanced with contemporary published reviews.

If anyone has album reviews - especially from noted publications/critics - PLEASE post 'em!