Global Warming Revitalized

Joe Szulczewski · #1 08-12-2010, 03:43 AM

Noticed an article in yesterday's Star Ledger about an iceberg about 4 times the size of Manhattan in the Arctic Ocean that broke off from Greenland.
Somehow this warrants some attention and watching.

voice1 · #2 08-12-2010, 04:12 AM

Not to worry, Joe. The Peterman Glacier that calved this giant has been growing for the past 7 years and this was expected. However it is the largest chunk of ice to break off since 1962. Our Coast Guard does not expect it to become a problem. link

MikeHOU · #3 08-12-2010, 04:27 AM

Here is an interview with one of our greatest minds in this field: Dr. Wallace Broecker. He is credited as being the first person to use the term "Global Warming"

Source: YouTube

Here is his first paper on the subject from 1975: http://tinyurl.com/26asem8

MikeHOU · #4 08-12-2010, 04:31 AM

A very good series by Robert Krowitch - he makes difficult topics easy to understand in a fun way:

Source: YouTube

MikeHOU · #5 08-12-2010, 04:47 AM

All the empirical evidence continues to support the claims and predictions of climate scientists like Broecker and Hansen.

http://www.climate.gov/#climateWatch

Quote:

More than 300 scientists from 160 research groups in 48 countries contributed to the report, which confirms that the past decade was the warmest on record and that the Earth has been growing warmer over the last 50 years.

MikeHOU · #6 08-12-2010, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Szulczewski

Noticed an article in yesterday's Star Ledger about an iceberg about 4 times the size of Manhattan in the Arctic Ocean that broke off from Greenland.
Somehow this warrants some attention and watching.

Joe, this is just a fraction of the mass loss Greenland is experiencing as confirmed by NASA/JPL studies:

NASA's Grace Sees Rapid Spread in Greenland Ice Loss

These events will most likely continue and increase as the earth continues to warm as a result of increased anthropogenic CO2.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...tid=6713971001

voice1 · #7 08-12-2010, 05:09 AM

And as always....there is SCIENCE that debunks every single point made above.

One of the best ways for us to save money in this country is to stop spending billions trying to prove AGW when we know it doesn't exist.

MikeHOU · #8 08-12-2010, 05:49 AM

Great cartoon.

I also like this quote:

Quote:

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to
forgo their use. -- Galileo Galilei

MikeHOU · #9 08-12-2010, 06:11 AM

BTW, as an FYI in an unrelated topic, the Perseids peak tonight.

Found this outstanding picture of a very bright meteor

Quote:

"This bright Perseid flying over the ruins of St. Andrew church made my evening," says Ladanyi. "It was so beautiful alongside Jupiter and the Milky Way."

***Nancy*** · #10 08-12-2010, 06:36 AM

Oh, jeez, here we go again.

Joe Szulczewski · #11 08-12-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy

Oh, jeez, here we go again.

Although it may be of little comfort: The legend of Pandora's Box tells us that there was one timy creature in the box that was the last to leave after all the evils were unleashed........that tiny creature is Hope.

MikeHOU · #12 08-12-2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy

Oh, jeez, here we go again.

know what you're thinking Nancy:

Quote:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

For me it's going to be different.

I've found too much of this

makes my head hurt.

And although I've had a bit more time of late, my work is about to get very busy again and I'll have little time to post much if anything.

voice1 · #13 08-12-2010, 09:34 AM

I agree with Mike and will return to more sane topics.

Nick_Bradley78 · #14 08-12-2010, 09:39 AM

It was the graphs and tables that always put me off

**Ace917** · #15 08-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_Bradley78

It was the graphs and tables that always put me off

Try this on for size (quoted from a previous post several years ago):

There's another factor in the equation, and I just did a little arithmetic and scared even myself. These are old figures, most from around 2000, so it's even worse than I'm figuring. And I'm not including trucks or buses, only private cars.

Here's the starting data from various internet sites:
Total number of automobiles in the US: 170 million.
Average mileage per year: 12000
Average miles per gallon: 15 (new cars are 20.2 in 2004, and that's ideal conditions and perfect driving, so this is an estimate)
Gasoline contains 18400 BTUs per pound or 31067 kilocalories per gallon

Doing the arithmetic shows we generate, with our automobiles, 3,520,876,800,000,000 kilocalories of heat every year, or about ten trillion kilocalories of heat per day... just for our personal transportation, and that's just the USA.

I'm not sure why this doesn't get any press. Maybe the number is simply too large for anyone to get their head around. And it doesn't include trucks, buses, trains, construction, smelting, power generation, manufacturing, heating and cooling, cooking, and the rest of the world... did I forget anything?

So... where does this heat go? Anybody care to answer? Even a SWAG would be appreciated.

Nick_Bradley78 · #16 08-12-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace917

3,520,876,800,000,000

Nice round number eh? though that was the US national debt rather than kilocalories of heat perday (whatever that is!)

George Lyons · #17 08-12-2010, 03:26 PM

What's the "3" - A Kaziliiongillion?

MikeHOU · #18 08-12-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace917

So... where does this heat go? Anybody care to answer? Even a SWAG would be appreciated.

It's a good question Ace.

Here is my SWAG via back of the envelope.

That amount of heat translates (if I did the math right) into about 5x10^10 Watts - a huge number (5 with 10 zeros after it). But this heat is absorbed by the atmosphere and then transported over the planet which has an area of about 5x10^14 square meters. So, the average flux (amount of energy per unit of area) then is about 0.0001 Watts/m^2.

The incoming flux due to the sun at the earth's surface is about 288 Watts/m^2 on average.

So, from this SWAG, even though the amount of heat output is tremendous, its still tiny compared to what the sun is doing.

**Ace917** · #19 08-12-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHOU

That amount of heat translates (if I did the math right) into about 5x10^10 Watts - a huge number (5 with 10 zeros after it). But this heat is absorbed by the atmosphere and then transported over the planet which has an area of about 5x10^14 square meters. So, the average flux (amount of energy per unit of area) then is about 0.0001 Watts/m^2.

Good answer, Mike. I'll shut up now.

**Ace917** · #20 08-12-2010, 05:30 PM

No, I won't.

We need to consider the frequency of the radiation. Currently, there are frequency "holes" in the atmosphere whereby much of the solar radiation reaching the earth is either reflected or reradiated back into space. Because of the presence of increasing amounts of greenhouse gases, these "holes" are gradually closing, and more of the solar energy is being trapped. So, even tho the contribution of waste energy (fossil fuel burning) may be small compared to solar flux, it exerts an important leverage on the sun's effect on climate.

Do I understand that right?

(Don't forget the meteor shower tonight. The radiant should rise in the northeast around sunset.)