[voice1]

I thought we should start a new thread to discuss what we've been discussing in the 'roids thread by Fred.

Rose......no
Reese.....no
Rizzuto.....no

No one with a surname beginning with "R" should get in except for Mr. Ruth.

Here's a great link to a great reference:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

[Dean]

One of my favorite sites, Rick.

[Rhodalee]

Mine too, Rick.

Rhodalee

How about Ferguson Jenkins? He is in the hall yet he once had been arrested for drugs and was suspended.

[voice1]

» August 25, 1980: At Toronto's Exhibition Stadium, Rangers P Ferguson Jenkins is arrested for possession of illegal drugs after customs officials discover an estimated $500 worth of cocaine, marijuana, and hashish in his suitcase. The arrest stuns the entire country, where Jenkins, a Canadian citizen, is considered a national hero.

» September 8, 1980: Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suspends Ferguson Jenkins indefinitely as a result of his August 25th drug arrest in Toronto. On September 22nd, the suspension will be overturned by arbitrator Raymond Goetz, the first time ever a commissioner's decision is overruled by an arbitrator.

» December 18, 1980: Ferguson Jenkins is convicted on cocaine possession charges in a Canadian court, but has the verdict immediately erased by Judge Gerald Young because of his years of "exemplary" conduct.

Jenkins had a fear of going blind as both his parents did. He used medicinal marijuana when he was diagnosed with the early signs of glaucoma.

He is the only Canadian enshrined in the HOF.

And isn't this interesting:?

Letter to Pete Rose


01-14-2004

Pete,

I have been thinking about your problems since you recanted your 14-year denial of the charges that you bet on major league baseball games as a manager. The media has been calling me for my opinion because I am in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. I am being asked if you deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. They are calling other Hall of Famers with this same question. We don’t deserve this.

How can you do this Pete? You are getting some bad advice on how to conduct your campaign to return to the good graces of baseball and the public.

How can you upstage the institution you so desperately want to join by allowing your book publisher to launch your confessional book so close to the announcement of this year’s Hall of Fame selections?

Your future lies totally with Bud Selig, the Commissioner of Major League Baseball, rather than with what the public thinks of your new book.

Hey, we didn’t make the millions these guys are making today, but surely you can find a way to make some money without embarrassing baseball. You broke a major rule on betting on baseball. Rule 21 is in place to protect baseball’s integrity. Rule 21 is posted on every Major League Baseball clubhouse door.

After you were caught betting, where was your conscience all these years? Why didn’t you come forward with your admission of guilt soon after your lifetime ban? The time for that was the following year or the year after, before your denial became a way of life for you. Why did you let the lie get bigger and bigger?

You have been taking advantage of all the hard work those of us have put in to the sport of baseball to attain a place in the Hall of Fame. You have denied yourself a place along with us because you didn’t confess early on.

You supposedly have come clean, but I don’t see where you have told the world you have repented enough to donate the profits from the sale of the book to Gamblers Anonymous. No, instead you are going to profit personally from your book’s sales. Many states have passed laws that prevent convicted felons from profiting from the sale of books they write about their crimes. Why should you be any different?

Knowing what I know now, I will never support your reinstatement to the game or your bid for the Hall.

Finally, I don’t want to read your new book. But tell me this, when do we find out if you bet on baseball when you were a player? Do we find that out in your next book?

And now that I have had time to put this into words, I just hope the media will stop asking your fellow athletes what your conduct was all about.

Fergie

So why should Jenkins belong in the Hall?

[George Lyons]

In Boston there is a debate (going on for ten years now) over Jim Rice. He only played 14 and 1/2 seasons because his eyesight failed and he wouldn't wear glasses. (He wears them now as a broadcaster) From 1976-1986 he dominated the A.L. as a right handed power hitter, unfortunately for him, he was notoriously nasty to the press and not that cordial to fans either and it seems to be coming back to haunt him now. Many think that his lifetime stats, accrued in a fairly short career, are as good or better than current HOF members. Here are the numbers: Any thoughts?


Jim Rice Outfield 1974-1989

Career Games 2089 AB's 8225 Runs 1249 Hits 2452

Doubles 373 Triples 79 HR's 382 RBI's 1451 BA .298

I'm thinking rice should have borrowed some cocaine from Jenkins for his poor eyesight.

Just kidding. I think Rice was a feared hitter in his day and was a great player. Balanced against some of the others in the HOF, I don't see why he isn't there. The next crop of candidates will be a tough one to crack for Rice, however. Unless they disallow anybody who remotely took illegal, drugs.
As I understand it - correct me if this is not correct - there was a list of drugs that WERE legal to take. I think maybe McGuire believes he will fall into that catagory.

[voice1]

No doubt he belongs. His numbers rival Kiner's and are better in many ways.

[voice1]

Fergie has no conviction. He has no record. It was erased by the courts.

Pete Rose is a convicted felon.

So Rick, if Jenkins belongs, shouldn't Bert Blyleven? 287 wins, 250 losses and 3.31 e.r.a., 3701 S.Os.

[voice1]

He is the most deserving pitcher not already in. Bert Blyleven needs to be enshrined ASAP. It's a joke that he isn't.

Robin Roberts was a guy I always pulled for to reach 300 wins, but he just got to 286. He was quite a star back with the Phillies.
I think he deserves to be in the HOF.

[voice1]

and ole' 36 is in fact in the HOF.

[George Lyons]

RICK-
Rice, Kiner , Tony Perez and Orlando Cepeda all had similar numbers; their names are often mentioned when discussing Rice's case. Next year Ripkin and I think Tony Glynn are the sure things and the year after will be Jim Rice's last year of eligibility before the Veteran's Committee. Time will tell. Bert "Be Home" Blyleven should probably be in for K's and E.R.A. alone besides 287 W's.

[Dean]

If you like Rice in the HOF then you should give serious consideration to Albert Belle. He’s gonna have a rough time because he was so disliked but look at the numbers during his most productive 8 years (1992-1999) compared to Rice’s most productive 8 (1977-1984). During that time Belle missed only 42 games, Rice 70.

Best HR Years
Rice: 46-1978, 39-1977, 39-1979, 39-1983
Belle: 50-1995, 49-1998, 48-1996, 38-1993

Best RBI Years
Rice: 139-1978, 130-1979, 126-1983, 122-1984, 114-1977
Belle: 152-1998, 148-1995, 129-1993, 126-1995, 117-1999

Best Total Bases Years
Rice: 406-1978, 382-1977, 369-1979, 344-1983, 307-1984
Belle: 399-1998, 377-1995, 375-1996, 330-1999, 328-1993

Best Slugging % Years
Rice: .600-1978, .593-1977, .596-1979, .550-1983, .509-1980
Belle: .714-1994, .690-1995, .655-1998, .623-1996, .552-1998

Belle won 5 Silver Slugger awards, given for the best hitter at his position (3 outfielders per year get it), Rice won 2.

I know he is a hard sell, and I am not enamored with Albert (don’t call me Joey) Belle, but he was just as dominate as Rice over the same length of time that everyone basis their “Rice belongs in the HOF” stance.

Peace, Dean

[voice1]

I'd say he gets in based upon his numbers. He was the highest paid ball player for 5 years. That says something about him in relation to his peers.

He had rages that some attribute to steroids but we'll never REALLY know about his "supplement" habits.

[Fred F]

In ol' Rajah's case, it's a question of compilers vs. those who rise to dizzying heights, but stay there for just a brief moment in time. Don Mattingly is another from the latter group. And then there's "uber poster child' for the short brilliant career profile, of course, the great Sandy Koufax.

Koufax only won 165 games in his entire career. There are literally dozens of pitchers, maybe even a hundred, who have won more games than Koufax, yet, they will never even sniff the Hall of Fame. However, from 1961-1966, he arguably put together the best 6 year stint of any pitcher in baseball history (21.5 wins per season with an ERA in the 2.20 neighborhood). No one uttered even a slight protest when he was elected into the HOF on the first ballot.

And then there's Roger Maris, he of the only legitimate 60+ home run season. Rajah had a similar brilliant moment in time. From 1960 to 1964 (five seasons) Maris won two MVP awards, while averaging 36.4 homers and 95.6 RBI's. By today's standards, that's not so great. But in this pre-steroid period, those numbers were superb. AND, of course, he broke the long standing (34 years) and most cherished record of all time, without the aid of steroids.

The HOF is full of compilers, players who were never great, but who hung around long enough to compile big numbers. Billy Williams comes to mind. Always just the second best player on the Cubbies, he compiled 426 homers and 1475 Ribbies in a long 18 year career. However he averaged only 23.6 homers and 82 ribbies. Nice numbers, but HOF quality?

Orlando Cepeda, 379 homers, 1365 ribbies in 17 years. His averages were even worse, 22.3 homers and 80 ribbies per year, AND, he couldn't even win the starting first base job on the Giants, having to learn how to play the outfield. OK, it WAS Willie McCovey who beat him out....now.... McCovey belongs in the HOF.

FREE PETE ROSE, ROGER MARIS AND GIL HODGES

[voice1]

I always thought Maris should be in. He was not a 1 year wonder although he was aided by expansion in 1961.

Hodges should have been in years ago.

Rose..............NEVER!!!

And now, the biggest oversight.........Richard Anthony Allen!!!

[Rhodalee]

Keep an eye out in a few years for Mike Piazza -- he will definitely get into the Hall of Fame -- best hitting catcher. I'm so bummed that he isn't with my beloved Mets this year.

Rhodalee