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Thread: Remembering Elvis Presley, His Life and Music

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    John ~To Everyone~

    I notice that your profile states 'corrections', then perhaps i could ask for your correction on one of your statements, and also to perhaps correct you on another.

    In a previous post in this thread you stated, and i quote :

    "I liked Elvis. To compare his voice to Sinatra is unfair. As for
    unintelligent fans, I have seen plenty of them at Sinatra concerts, too. I just feel that Elvis had a lot of raw, uninhibited talent.
    Very well managed by Tom Parker"

    yet in the text you posted most recently you say that :

    "I would agree with the comments about Tom
    Parker. He should have dumped him in the 60's. "

    Which statement do you stand by? Or are you still going to change them to suit your current position in this 'debate'.

    And if you would care to read back to what i have posted, you would see that i never made the statement about the intelligence levels of any set of fans, i am not interested in such a d debate, neither am i interested in the debate of who had more fans, this i think is a little 'ner ner ner, he had more than you' and i grew out of that a while ago, although perhaps my 'young' age lead you to believe i would?

    I still think that your comments about my age, and me not being 'qualified' to have an opinion are very wrong, and i would appreciate an apology for that remark.

    A direct consistent response would also allow me to think more of your opinions rather than the vague, general 'to everyone' message's you seem to be posting, and if your opinions stay the same in more than two posts i would also be more inclined to take your opinions seriously.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

  2. #42
    Guest

    Tom Parker

    I see you are still wasting your time. Tom Parker took
    a young man with a lot of raw talent that perhaps Elvis
    Presley could not see, and made him a star. I would say Elvis
    was well managed. Later, when Elvis was a bit more wise to the
    world - serving in the US Army, etc,- he might have been better
    off without Partker, and could have dumped him. As for how
    many fans he has is not relevant. Elvis probably sold more records dead than alive. Who cares? As for my apology, don't
    hold you breath. John

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    John - again

    John,

    I would not consider, having a reasonable debate a waste of time? If you say that, then surely this whole forum is a waste of time? Or do you think that this particular thread is a waste of time because others and myself do not happen to agree with your inconsistent and somewhat fluid opinions?

    Yet again I see that you are not correctly reading my posts, I did say that I am not interested in:

    a) Number of fans

    b) Intelligence of fans

    Both are non-factual assumptions based on an individuals own opinions and personal preference.

    I do not see however why you cannot offer me an apology?

    Surely you must see that the remark saying that I am not old enough to have an opinion, was utterly ridiculous, and I am sure that other readers of this thread will back me up on that.

    If you think, however, that it was a valid remark, then by all means do not offer an apology, but your standing in my eyes and in many others in this forum, I have no doubt, would be greatly lessened.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

  4. #44
    Guest

    apology

    So Adam, If I wrote to say that I take back EVERYTHING
    negative I ever wrote about you or your opinions, and
    that I took an oath to always agree with everything you say,
    you would then like me and allow everybody on this board
    who now dislikes me to like me? Is that it? You called this
    a waste of time. And it surely is. If you believe what I said to be utterly ridiculous, that's fine, I'm not mad. What do you care
    about what I might think? Does it really bother you that much?
    I got involved with this board out of curiosity and a genuine
    affection for Frank Sinatra, and perhaps to share some of my
    own musical tastes with others, without intending to compare
    with Sinatra, although it is inevitable to get comparisons.
    After reading this board for a while, I can sense there are a
    few people who agree with my other choices in music, or at
    least would agree that these performers have a place somewhere
    on the musical spectrum. I only write this dialogue to you, Adam,
    to demonstrate - I hope - that I had no intention to get into an
    argument with you, Adam. This will be my final response to this
    thread. John

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    John - Have you read what i have wrote?

    I give up, i am not going to try and reiterate again, what i have said 3 times already, and as you still dont seem to have read or understood what i have said, i will close this 'debate' here.

    But i must say, your childishness surprises me, now you are effectively sticking your fingers in you ears and going 'bla bla bla' as my young cousin does, when he cant get his own way.

    I do not or pretend to have any influence over anyone on this forum, people who have read our 'conversation' will make their own judgements. Even though i can imagine what they will be, this is not my doing, i merely foretell.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

  6. #46
    Guest

    Simply magnificent

    Elvis had a wonderful, warm, powerful voice that suited his type of music very well. I am very thankful that Elvis was able to share his talent with the world for over twenty years. He is sorely missed.

  7. #47
    Guest

    Well, nyah-nyah...

    Gordy Sumner, whose about my age (to my surprise, he sure acts much younger) would say "doo doo doo dah dah dah is all I have to say to you".

    I can't be jealous of Adam's youth. I had mine during Frank's bossa nova period. And while Adam is sharp and persuasive, I don't think he has intended to turn anyone against John. John is very knowledgeable, and like me he probably sees a parallel between Elvis Presley and Abner Yokum.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    Hello Peggy

    Hello Peggy

    I agree with you, its the first time anyones called me 'sharp' and 'persuasive' though!!

    I was just annoyed with the comment from John about me not being qualified to speak on this subject because i was not old enough?????? I find that VERY offensive.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Old Bridge New Jersey

    Thumbs up Loved-up

    I know this little disagreement is between you and John Osterholm, and so it's clearly none of my business....but I happen to completely agree with you, that it's totally inappropriate for anyone to say your opinion shouldn't count...for any reason. You obviously know a lot about music, and your age is completely irrelevent regarding your opinions about music..or anything. That's 'ageism" at its worst.

    I'm a big baseball fan, and all baseball fans like to compare players from different generations with today's players. The problem with doing that is that unless you lived in that particular era and saw the guy play, you're just going by statistics and the opinions of others. There is almost nothing recorded on tape in baseball from the 1920's 30's 40's

    But with music, it's all there. You can listen to Elvis' recordings just like someone who was a teenager in the 50's, and make an accurate assessment.

    PS- I also agree with you on your opinion of Elvis.
    My heart.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    Thanks

    Thankyou Fred, im sure there are many more that agree with what you just said, im just sorry John couldnt see the wrong behind the comment.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

  11. #51
    Guest

    Wow..what a discussion!

    Hi Adam,

    Sorry to see the strong disagreements, but this has been an interesting thread.

    You know I like Elvis, so on this one we have to 'agree to disagree' but that's cool, because it's all subjective anyway...we just like what we like!

    This is not to 'agree' with John ( or to disagree either, Hi John!)..when I first read his comment I took it (sort of the same way Fred mentioned baseball players) ...to mean that you weren't a young person or even the age your are now, when Elvis hit the scene, so you couldn't judge his impact from the beginning to the end....but I guess alot of us can't do that with many of the artists we enjoy ( or don't enjoy!).

    I have to admit that I don't think I can 'know' Frank Sinatra the same way that the first and original fans (who were there with him from the beginning and felt the force of his new style of singing and artistry and followed his career all the way thru) can AND do.......he was 50 when I was born and already an established artist for over 25 years!

    And I wasn't even really aware of him until I was 12-15 and didn't become a true fan until I was about 30 - almost 55 years since he became known!

    But that doesn't mean I can't fall in love with his work and admire him tremendously.....or that you can't form an opinion on Elvis just because you were born 26 years after he hit the scene.

    Or in the same vain, I have been a Madonna fan since I first heard her on the Top 40 in 1982 or 1983 (when I was 17 or 18)....so current fans of hers who were very young when she first came out may not have the same kind of 'memories' and overview of her career as I do, but again...the 'work' from the beginning is out there for anyone to discover and form an opinion on.

    I don't remember who said something about the 'intelligence' factor...to me, there are many forms of 'intelligence': street-level, emotional intelligence, life experience and wisdom, formal education, native intelligence accompanied by a high IQ...everyone has some area where they are 'intelligent' or 'wise'....and it might not be fair to judge someone's intelligence based on appearance, grammar, background or taste in art, music, etc.

    Again, I thought John was referring to inital 'artist impact' as well as career overview and talent...but his comments weren't directed to me and I know that makes all the difference in the world!

    So anyway...I still like Elvis and enjoy putting on one of his 'greatest hits' CDs, but of course, will always love Mr. Sinatra THE BEST...he sang a different kind of song with a different kind of passion and understanding and depth, and to me he will always be the finest intepreter of lyrics and melody and story-telling we will ever have!

    Selena

  12. #52
    Guest

    Say hey Selena!

    One thing all of on this group would agree is that Frank Sinatra
    as an artist,musician, performer, set the standard for all in his wake since 1940. Even today, after his death, people are
    still attempting do his music. I guess this is a tribute to the man.
    I do not believe anybody should be compare to Sinatra - it's
    not fair to the other performer - unless some totally new guy
    comes along who IS better. His standard is yet to be met.
    John

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    SoCal

    Yes, of course Elvis could sing.

    What have millions of us been listening to all these years!

    Comparisons are inevitable so I won't suggest that it is a mistake to
    compare Elvis and Frank. They were both tremendous personalities
    with memorable voices and tons of talent.

    Elvis was known as The King (of Rock and Roll) and Frank was known as
    The Voice. Their musical styles were as different as the men themselves,
    but they had one giant trait in common: each wanted to entertain and
    sing more than anything else in their lives. Each sacrificed much for the
    privelege of dedicating themselves to the world and their craft. Each
    contributed greatly to the world of music and the huge legacy of American
    popular culture.

    Perhaps if those who disagree would listen to some of E.P.'s gospel collections,
    they might change their minds. Also, I can recommend highly his favorite of his
    own recordings, Tomorrow Is A Long Time. The feeling on this record is tangible
    and extremely moving.

    So, to compare Elvis to my dad is not unlike comparing Ella and Aretha. Both
    extremely talented - just different styles. What could possibly be wrong with that?
    There is room for everybody.

    I am sorry to intrude on your discussion but since Elvis was a dear friend of mine
    I could not let the insults go by without commenting. Elvis was one of the most
    wonderful people I ever met and having seen him perform many times I can say that
    his shows were absolutely incredible and his voice filled the showrooms with magic.
    Audiences loved him and so did I - and I consider myself a fairly intelligent person.

    Regards to all.

    Nancy

    Here is a picture from MGM:
    DON'T DESPAIR

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    no longer S.F.

    Thanks, Nancy, for this shot from "Speedway"

    I thought the movie was really cute.

    Regarding Susan's next message:

    As we go through life, it's "not what
    we did we regret, but what we
    didn't do"
    . And though it's a cliche,
    to me it's still relatively fresh on
    the horizon.
    ......pick yourself up...... ......dust yourself off...... ......start all over again...... (my e-mail)

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Old Bridge New Jersey

    It's amazing how passionate people get about music

    Nancy- I understand your defending Elvis since he was a friend, and since you love his music. I get the same way when anyone puts Tom Jones down. But there's one thing we all agree upon..at least on this website....your dad was the greatest!
    My heart.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

    Thumbs up Elvis

    Nancy, I say AMEN to all you have said.

    There's place for everyone in this world. I like Elvis and I adore Frank. THAT'S ALL.

    Lourdes
    LOURDIE
    Member since 1997
    - Frank Sinatra: You will be my music.

  17. #57
    Guest

    Hi Adam and everyone...

    Good Morning!

    I haven't heard the song mentioned by Nancy..now I am really curious!

    Adam...I'm not trying to convert you , but I just listened to a song I think you might like called 'Don't'....it's kind of in the same vain as the 'If' thread...it's very sweet and gentle and about being in love and wanting/needing/hoping that the girl will hear his 'plea'.

    I agree his voice is not as flat out beautiful and his singing style is not as clear and resonant as Mr. Sinatra...but I think that improved as he grew older.

    I love 'Hard-Headed Woman' and 'Jailhouse Rock', I think those songs rock and when I'm in a dancing mood, they really get me going!

    And I really enjoy his bouncier songs like 'Good Luck Charm' 'Stuck On You' 'I'm All Shook Up' 'I Love You Too Much'.

    And one of my favorites and a song he does that I find very inspiring is 'If I can Dream'.

    I guess this 'debate' can go on forever....I mentioned before that my parents were fans and they aren't really the types to be 'fans'...they don't collect cds, books, etc.....but I remember when Mr. Presley died, I heard it on the radio and went in and told my mother ( my parents had just seen him a few months prior) and the look on my mother's face was pure shock and disbelief, it was very startling to her and very sad, even my father was kind of shocked and sad and circumspect and he usually covers his more vulnerable or sad moments with humor...it really meant something to them...they were born in 1944, so remember Elvis from the beginning...and I tell you...my Mom was compelled to go out and buy an Elvis t-shirt!

    That impressed me alot as, again, that would not be a normal thing for her to do! And then they went out and bought the 'blue vinyl' Moody Blue album....I also listened to that alot when dusting/vacumming etc.

    So, again it is all subjective...based on actual talent and a body of work and of course the intangible 'feeling' and 'connection' you make with any artist...what you heard or felt when listening to them sing - their heart, their spirit, their energy and you take it in and it merges with your own inner thoughts and feelings and dreams.

    PS Regarding the previously mentioned 'intelligence' question thru-out this thread - My dad was an executive for a very long time in the Technology unit at a big company here in town and a self-taught computer programmer (he learned from programming manuals that were thrown out at his job, around 1970) and my Mom has a Masters in Psychology and is a practicing Therapist.

    Selena

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Old Bridge New Jersey

    Hey Johnofphilly- what a blast from the past

    I remember listening to SUSPICION with my sister way back when, and we couldn't believe how much he sounded like Elvis. What ever happened to Terry Stafford? I never heard of him after that song. Also, can you answer this question...what was the line after the word 'suspicion" ...it sounds like "corvince my heart" instead of "convince my heart"....or is it some other word altogether.

    Hey Johno- I just re-read your post and saw that you already answered my question! Can you believe that in all these years neither my sister nor I could figure out that the word was "torments". I guess Terry Stafford fans ain't too bright either
    My heart.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    no longer S.F.

    Fred, that was a great musical year, 1964

    I think it was '64, or maybe '65. I know every good thing in Philly tends to walk out on it. Breyers Ice Cream, the Latin Casino, and American Bandstand being no exception. Dick went to Hollywood and took it with him.

    My memory has gotten fuzzy as to whether I saw Terry on Bandstand or Lloyd Thaxton, a comparable mid-sixties teenage dance show host whose show replaced Bandstand. I think it was the latter.
    ......pick yourself up...... ......dust yourself off...... ......start all over again...... (my e-mail)

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    England

    Hello again

    I think i have inspired a good debate in this thread, but i also think that i made a mistake during the earlier posts, drawing comparisons between FS and EP. Although inevitable it is, in hindsight, i should have stuck too the debate on Elvis's vocal talents.

    However, i did not make the comment about fans intelligence, and my opinions on Elvis's vocal skill have been documented, and have been discussed. I do not think i have 'insulted' Mr Presley or his memory in any way.

    Adam
    Adam
    Be Aware Don't Despair

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