[Nancy]

Viet Nam Veteran Statistics

Some things to think about

Most of the surviving Parents are now Deceased.

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

Beginning at the apex on panel 1E and going out to the end of the East wall, appearing to recede into the earth (numbered 70E - May 25, 1968), then resuming at the end of the West wall, as the wall emerges from the earth (numbered 70W - continuing May 25, 1968) and ending with a date in 1975. Thus the war's beginning and end meet. The war is complete, coming full circle, yet broken by the earth that bounds the angle's open side and contained within the earth itself.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth , Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.

1,448 soldiers were killed on their [scheduled] last day in Vietnam.

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers on attended ThomasEdisonHigh School in Philadelphia. Why so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the ApacheNational Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy’s assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.




For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, they see the faces, they feel the pain that these numbers created. They are, until they too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters.

There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

[NickfromPhilly]

Dear Nancy: Thank you so much for posting this information, particularly for the benefit of those who look at the Vietnam War as merely a footnote in history. To younger generations, it's as far removed as the War of 1812.

The facts that you quoted are memories that bring back so much pain and heartache to those of us who lived through those terrible days. With many of the facts that you've listed, I'm positive, that most Vets (myself included), are seeing them for the very first time.

Our lives were changed forever, simply by an accident of birth. We "came of age," at a time when our country was in turmoil, and needed us the most. It was the fate of our generation to make sacrifices for our country that were required then, just as many are still making today. My only regret is that so many have made the ultimate sacrifice. Just yesterday, in a Philadelphia newspaper, three quarters of military veterans who've served since 9/11, when surveyed, say that war accomplishes nothing.

The 1,448 who died on their last day "in country," reminds me of a warning that I received from my platoon leader about my habit of repeating, (way too often), the term "SHORT !!!" He'd say, "Trooper, don't jinx yourself now."

The startling numbers and facts that you've listed give me pause. They numb my mind and pierce my heart, even after almost a half a century. I didn't just see numbers when I read this. I saw faces. Thank you so much for keeping the spirit and souls of all who served, alive. We love you for it!

[Ace917]

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.

Essentially every one of the 58,267 soldiers, sailors, and airmen was killed on his or her last day in Vietnam.

Thank you for posting this, Nancy. Numbers are numbers, but these are visceral.

[sabaue]

[Nancy]

Thank you to Ace, Nick and Sally for acknowledging this thread.

[Richard]

Heartbreaking.

[Dina]

So very, very sad.

[Gregory]

Those statistics are so sad. How did 15, 16, and 17 year old get into the service?

[Rhodalee]

Today I had the pleasure of meeting a Viet Nam Vet. I was in the supermarket pushing my cart, first a woman came in a mobile chair, I bumped into her, we laughed and I said I was a lousy driver. Then came along a man in a mobile chair. He had no legs, from his thighs down, his right arm was a stump. He only had his left arm. He started kidding around with the other woman and me. He wanted to have a race. We all had a good chuckle, when I left I could not stop the tears. This man had a great sense of humor with all his troubles. Seemed like he was just glad he was alive. G-D bless him.

[johnofphilly]

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

If that one doesn't jump off the page, the reader must be desensitized.

[voice1]

Being a youngster, Viet Nam was Walter Cronkite on my parent's Admiral in the living room of our row house. It really wasn't until I had to register with the selective service that it really sunk in...what that little police action did to our country. A wall in their honor just isn't enough. The toll taken on those warriors after the war is incomprehensible.

[Nancy]

Yes, Walter Cronkite giving the death toll each night was a dreadful part of our lives.

Originally Posted by NickfromPhilly

Dear Nancy: Thank you so much for posting this information, particularly for the benefit of those who look at the Vietnam War as merely a footnote in history. To younger generations, it's as far removed as the War of 1812.

Not true. Nobody ever saw news footage or even still photographs of the War of 1812. It was ancient history to Abraham Lincoln, who was born in 1809. His parents knew very little about it when it happened. The final battle was fought after the peace treaty was signed because the generals were not notified by telegraph of the peace treaty. Telegraph was invented many years later.

But Vietnam War images, such as the police chief extending his arm perfectly straight and shooting a handcuffed prisoner (preserved in both still and moving images), have been burned into the minds of many people who missed them the first time around. At least one rock star who died young leaving behind a cult following of troubled people grabbed their attention with this lyric: "That is where the news is read; television children fed." They watch concert footage of their idol jumping off the stage while the sound of gunfire is erupting. He lands on the floor below in a supine position. You don't have to worry about his death discrediting his lyrics in that song "The Unknown Soldier"; many of his fans believe he faked his own death. He's the most blatant example of 1960s timelessness; Oliver Stone's cult following pays even more attention to Vietnam.

It is odd that anyone who participates in this multimedia group would think for a moment that people have not been affected by images and sounds that they are too young to have experienced when they were new. Remember the phrase, "It was before your time?" That phrase has zero meaning to people who are too young to become president of the United States. So does the phrase "souvenirs in the attic."

[Nancy]

A personal loss for those of us in Rolling Thunder

Col. Nguyen Kim Ban


Col. Ban was a regular attendee at our yearly event and we will miss him.

Colonel Nguyen Kim Ban was one of the last three ARVN soldiers: one two-star General, one Colonel, and one Sargent, who stood fast and hold out the ARVN National Military Headquarters in Saigon.

The three were then captured by the invading Communist troops. Colonel Ban was imprisoned for 17 years and was finally released from his capture due to his poor health. Col. Ban, Mrs Ban and their family were finally allowed to settled in US.

Since their arrival in early 1992, Mrs. Ban helped her "Colonel" husband and led the VietNamese community in conducting their annual memorial services, under the sponsorship of The National Vietnam & Gulf War Veterans Coalition, at the VN Veteran Memorial Walls in remembrance of all VN, US, and Allied personnel who had heroically lost their lives during the Vietnam war, to fight for our freedom, democracy, and liberty that we all are enjoying today.




If anyone would like to send condolences to the family of
Col. Nguyen Kim Ban, they may send them to Col. Ban's
daughters address:

Jenny Tran
14919 Abilene Way
Woodbridge, VA 22193

[Ace917]

He and some of his fellow countrymen are guests at our annual Rolling Thunder dinner in Washington DC every Memorial Day.

... to fight for our freedom, democracy, and liberty that we all are enjoying today.

Political machinations aside, this is why we were in Vietnam, to try to preserve this freedom in South Vietnam, a fact most often lost on critics of that war. The Vietnamese in this country are so thankful to be here, and they are most thankful for the servicemen and women who tried to save it for their country. We're reminded of that every Memorial Day dinner.

[NickfromPhilly]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

Not true. Nobody ever saw news footage or even still photographs of the War of 1812.......................

Hello Eric: I realize that you're an educator. Your statements make me extremely pleased to hear that there may, in fact, be members of more recent generations (than mine), actually interested in the pain and sacrifice that was the Vietnam War.

Most of the younger people that I interact with today (family excluded), can instantly recognize Snookie from MTV's Jersey Shore, Justin Beeber, and name every member of "the Simpson family," but when confronted with photographs of LBJ, Gen. William Westmoreland, Dean Rusk, Robert McNamara, Ho Chi Minh, Chairman Mao, or even JFK, they draw a complete mental blank.

When I first began to watch a segment of the Tonight Show, that Jay Leno has dubbed "Jaywalking," I originally thought that this had to be a "put-up job." I simply thought that American citizens couldn't be that stupid. This had to be some sort of "schtick." But the more I watched, and studied Jay's comments and reactions, I came to the stark realization that some Americans' knowledge of their own country's history is, indeed, frightening. Many appear to be college students, which then opens up "another can of worms."

The danger in your statement of "Not true," comes in generalizing, or in making the assumption that all generations (since Vietnam), are well versed in the course of the conflict's history. I can assure you, they are not.

[Nancy]

Thank you, Nick.

[QUOTE=NickfromPhilly;1079957]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

Not true. Nobody ever saw news footage or even still photographs of the War of 1812.......................

Hello Eric: I realize that you're an educator. Your statements make me extremely pleased to hear that there may, in fact, be members of more recent generations (than mine), actually interested in the pain and sacrifice that was the Vietnam War.

Most of the younger people that I interact with today (family excluded), can instantly recognize Snookie from MTV's Jersey Shore, Justin Beeber, and name every member of "the Simpson family," but when confronted with photographs of LBJ, Gen. William Westmoreland, Dean Rusk, Robert McNamara, Ho Chi Minh, Chairman Mao, or even JFK, they draw a complete mental blank.

Don't you remember the controversy about Oliver Stone swaying millions of young people toward believing Oswald conspiracy theories ? Washington, DC insiders such as Jack Valenti and Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee were furious. JFK himself got a large share of the publicity surrounding the movie. Oswald and Fletcher Prouty hardly got it all. The film spawned dozens of TV documentaries about the victim ("Ich bin ein Berliner") as well as the murderer ("I didn't shoot anybody.") People who missed them the first time around heard what they had to say.

Twenty years have passed since the filiming of that movie, some of it done several yards away from the Vietnam veterans' memorial on the Mall in DC. It's nice to think of the young people to whom Stone dedicated the movie as still young. I assure you not all of them became conspiracy theorists, but a large majority of them learned to question authority and that power corrupts. And they were horrified by the still and moving images of the police chief shooting the handcuffed young man during the Tet Offensive.

Originally Posted by NickfromPhilly

The danger in your statement of "Not true," comes in generalizing, or in making the assumption that all generations (since Vietnam), are well versed in the course of the conflict's history. I can assure you, they are not.

The young people who cannot remember Oliver Stone are eschewing more than the Vietnam War. They know nothing about U.S. involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan, either. But these people are not going to gain power. Obama is the first president who used the Internet to get elected, and he knows a lot about Vietnam. Most likely, he grew up not knowing any veterans of that war, but he learned all about it.

Ditto for most recent graduates of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, Smith and Mt. Holyoke. I assure you future politicians and CEO's will know their history. Airheads who text their friends or play Wii games all day cannot gain power.

[NickfromPhilly]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

It is odd that anyone who participates in this multimedia group would think for a moment that people have not been affected by images and sounds that they are too young to have experienced when they were new. Remember the phrase, "It was before your time?" That phrase has zero meaning to people who are too young to become president of the United States. So does the phrase "souvenirs in the attic."

[QUOTE=Eric Paddon;1080016]

The young people who cannot remember Oliver Stone are eschewing more than the Vietnam War. They know nothing about U.S. involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan, either. But these people...........Airheads who text their friends or play Wii games all day cannot gain power.

Exactly my point about making "generalizations, as in your former quote (shown above).

[bigtom55]

Nancy, thanks for the stats as they bring a terrible time to light.

In 1972, I did my Eagle Scout project. I collected items for the Veterans at Hines VA Hospital in Chicago. Collecting items was the easy part of the project, but to finish the project I had to deliver them to the Hospital. The Administrator at the time asked me to hand deliver the items, which I did. There is nothing more disturbing to a young man than to hand over items to vets who are missing limbs, or are burned. Each vet shook my hand and thanked me for caring druing a time when most people were forgetting them. They thanked me, when it was me that should have and did thank them for their sacrifice. The memories still sit with me to this day.

On my birthday that year, I received my selective service draft number. It was number 3, so I knew where I was going to go after graduation. Fortunately for myself, The draft was abolished before I graduated. To this day, I still feel guilty for not having to serve, but for the grace of God, I hold vets at the highest possible esteem.

On a trip to Washington, I took my wife to the Wall. A bright sunny day that soon turned gray when we arrived at the wall. As we walked along the wall, tears flowed from my eyes as names of friends and relatives jumped off the wall at me. One was my baseball coach who died at Landing zone x-ray under Col. Hal Moore. That day was one of the hardest days of my life, to see so many faces that were stilled before they entered the prime of their life.

To bring this full circle, my youngest son wanted to do his Eagle project and after looking through some of my old scouting mementos, found my Eagle project. He decided to do the same project. He contacted the VA here in Albuquerque and they approved the project. He collected books, models, clothing, toiletries and other items for the vets. He was asked to hand deliver the items to the wards, which he did. He handed each vet an item, thanked them for their sacrifices and wished them the best. He met vets from WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan. He told me at times that he wanted to cry, but he held back the tears and finished his project. He is my third son to attain the rank of Eagle Scout, following in their father's footsteps.

One day, I hope the human race will realize that war is a terrible waste of human life and let us pray for World War NONE.