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Thread: SINATRA / JOBIM 1967 & 1969 

  1. Jake,

    "The Wonderful World" album is the one I was talking about. I had the date wrong. Great record, isn't it? I think one of the top 5 albums of all time is Ella's "Mercer Songbook." One of Nelson's very best works. I never had the sense that the arrangements were overpowering her vocals at all (no more than the dynamic interplay between the orchestra and Frank's vocals on "Swingin' Lovers.")
    BONX!

  2. #102

    Overpowering arrangements!

    Hi Chuck,

    "The Wonderful World" is marvelous and truly a great album, for both men. "Samba do Aviao", "Surfboard", "So' Tinha de Ser Com Voce" and "Favela" are my favorites. The arrangements flow so well and portray the Bossa Nova in the Jobim style most impressively. The arrangement to "So' Tinha de Ser Com Voce" I believe was greatly influenced by the arrangement of the song in another wonderful album "Elis and Tom".

    Now to Ella and Nelson:

    Don't get me wrong, I love Nelson Riddle and Ella Fitzgerald and love being able to include the songbooks in my collection. However, in the first song of the Mercer songbook, "Too Marvelous for Words", I believe especially towards the ending Ella is being flooded by the rich arrangement, and in this instance Nelson is building up to a climax.

    These observations are not really uniquely mine. In Samuel Brylawski's liner notes to the album from June 1997 he writes about the "Fitzgerald vs. Riddle" rounds. "[Too marvelous for Words] sounds like Round One of Fitzgerald vs. Riddle, with her practically knocked out by the sheer force of his 'swing'. Riddle might have been more careful not to create ring settings that overpower the beauty of the gemstones."
    In any case, I also recommend all the Ella songbooks for their artistry, including "Ella abraca Jobim", which brings us full circle back to the great Brazilian, as it should for this thread.

    (By the way, love that avatar, also found as part of the overlay to your book on Sinatra's art!)

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  3. #103
    I had this discussion once with Bernhard in a restaurant in Nuremburg but also on this thread about the differences between Claus Ogerman's and Eumir Deodato's bossa nova arrangements (on page 4).

    I like to think of Deodato and Ogerman for arrangements in a way like Buddy Rich and Irv Cottler on the drums. One guy is showy and is the main attraction whereas the other defines a rhythm, sticks to it, and that's it.

    Jobim's albums "Wave" with Ogerman and "Tide" with Deodato I think exemplify the differences between the two arrangers in the ways I explained in my posts on page 4.

    "The Composer of Disafinado Plays" and "Love, Strings and Jobim" are other examples of "Ogerman vs. Deodato"! On one album you have the same rhythm over and over again, in the other you have extremely lush arrangements, but "heavy" in some instances. All of them are great albums, however.

    For Bossa Nova, I think the subtle quiet rhythms and sounds are paramount, as in nature when you hear the sings [edit: songs] of birds in the distance, or a raindrop falling on a leaf, or a distant crash of a wave on a rocky shore. The passion is so immense, yet very quiet and light. To listen to the Bossa Nova is to listen to nature itself, to hear its soul and then realize it's your own soul you're listening to, and Jobim was indeed a master at doing just that.

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  4. #104
    "The arrangement to "So' Tinha de Ser Com Voce" I believe was greatly influenced by the arrangement of the song in another wonderful album "Elis and Tom"."

    Actually, this time it's I who got the dates all wrong. Obviously the "Elis and Tom" arrangement is greatly influenced by the Nelson Riddle arrangement, since "Elis and Tom" was recorded in 1974, nine years after the Riddle/Jobim date.

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  5. #105
    I have Frank Sinatra's "The Complete Reprise Studio Recordings" 20 cds trunk. On cd #13 you can find all the recordings from "Sinatra & Jobim 1969". "Someone To Light Up My Life" original title in potuguese is "Se Todos Fossem Iguais À Você" (If Everybody Would Be The Same Like You). "A Day In A Life Of A Fool" [track 3 of cd # 14] - "Manhã De Carnaval" (Carnaval's Morning) is from the film "Black Orpheus". It's so Beautiful !

  6. #106

    Sinatra Jobim 1028

    I read with some interest the entire 5 pages of comment and conjecture on the withdrawal of 1028.

    Despite the listing of every opinion under the sun, there still remains no definitive answer.

    Surely, a Family Member, or an exec at Reprise involved in the recall and the cancellations of the vinyl disc and the cover that was slated to go with it, has to know at the very least; the reason given.

    I was fortunate enough to get the 2 disc UK Portrait release and so have had all the songs to listen to for many years. I look forward to programming them in the intended LP order as this aspect was often critical to the concept albums. Just read the titles from the A side of WEE Small Hours sequentially and you'll know what I mean.
    NICK
    Old School Teacher

  7. #107
    The two outings with Jobim which Sinatra had are indeed outstanding works in my view. I have to say that the 1967 recordings and the 1969 recordings are both quite different in style and approach. They are both very valid bossa nova albums in their own right.

    My presonal preference is for the 1967 recordings which demonstrate a beautiful softness and control.
    Jeffrey

  8. #108
    Guest

    Re: Sinatra Jobim 1028

    Originally posted by Nick in Toronto
    I look forward to programming them in the intended LP order as this aspect was often critical to the concept albums. Just read the titles from the A side of WEE Small Hours sequentially and you'll know what I mean.
    Nick, I know exactley what you mean. I think there is a certain obligation to take actions of the sort, in order to honor the wishes of the original artists and to carry out the "concept" of the "concept album".

  9. #109
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bvo35 View Post
    I suggest this thread to be linked with the 'regular' thread for the Sinatra-Jobim recordings at the "FS Recordings" forum section.
    Repeating Bernhard's suggestion. Although two years have passed, this thread would still merge nicely into the official Frank's Recordings thread at:

    SINATRA / JOBIM 1967 & 1969

    (If not, I've adjusted my back links in an earlier post in that thread.)

  10. #110
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy View Post
    The original artwork (FS standing in front of a GREYHOUND bus) still exists.
    The original full-color Reprise LP artwork appears as a removable foldout in one of the packets contained in Charles Pignone's book, The Sinatra Treasures (published in 2004 after Nancy's comment).

  11. #111
    Guest
    Sold recently for $4,550.00!


  12. #112
    Anything that has to do with Jobim is worth gold for me. For me he is the greatest composer/songwriter ever, the Gershwin of Brazil. Adding the name Sinatra to the work of art makes it a masterpiece.

    I know this is in the Frank forum but I can't help it:

    My greatest dream in the Jobim dept. is to have had Nancy do an album with him. Her voice would have complemented Jobim's beloved guitar and piano so well, surpassing in my opinion even her father's.

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  13. #113

    Thumbs up Sinatra/Jobim

    Two great artists, two genius.
    LOURDIE
    Frank Sinatra: You will be my music.

  14. < My greatest dream in the Jobim dept. is to have had Nancy do an album with him. >

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jake. I wish that had been possible too. My bossa nova songs in various albums were proof of his influence on my music. The most fun was taking the hits of the day and painting them with the Jobim brush as with As Tears Go By. Even Mick Jagger was impressed!

  15. #115

    Again I depart from the Frank Sinatra theme here...

    Thanks, Nancy, for your comments!

    Still, however, I wish there were a "Nancy Sandra Sinatra and Antonio Carlos Jobim" album with Claus Ogerman arrangements. You would have given the great Astrud Gilberto a run for her money, and then some!

    Support the FAS Times Square Statue
    Sleep warm all!!!!!

  16. #116
    Guest
    Repeating Bob's repeat of my posting from decades ago: This ought to be merged into the thread at Sinatra Recordings as suggested by Bob!

    Jobim's music, as "easy-going" as it may seem on first listen, was/is a package of genius - and Francis Albert Sinatra was among the few vocalists capable of coping with its complexity to perfection.

    Bernhard.

  17. #117
    Guest
    Just bought this today after having seen the clip that FAS/ACJ did on Frank's show (the medley). A couple of comments (granted these are off the cuff after a couple of listenings so I reserve the right to change my mind).

    1. The medley on the show was much more loose while the album seems a little more controlled-- probably makes sense in that you can't necessarily freeform as much on an album.
    2. On my CD, the bass seems a bit heavy and overwhelming to the rest of it. Anyone else feel the mix was off? Maybe it's just some glitch on my CD.
    3. I feel this is a very natural extension of Frank's work, but does anyone know if at the time this was seen as a departure or maybe more risky for him? I think we're so used to having such eclectic music available to us that maybe it's hard to imagine a world where Bossa Nova was considered to be more of an exotic import.

    I just love that bossa nova feel and I'm so excited to get to know this album better, which combines my favorite singer with a beat that feels so natural and inviting. This is definitely going to get a lot of play.

  18. #118
    Guest
    I think this was not so much a depatrue as an extention as you said. "Moonlight Sinatra" from 1966 has Frank doing some bossa-nova like numbers.

    I personally hold this album on the same level as "Getz/Gilberto". Both albums ARE bossa at its best. Sinatra conforms to the nature of bossa nova perfectly and yet creates something entirely his.

  19. #119
    Guest

    Couldn't say it better myself!

    <<Sinatra conforms to the nature of bossa nova perfectly and yet creates something entirely his.>>



    Melissa

  20. What a beautiful soundtrack to a day such as today, Sinatra & Jobim make, late summer afternoon, still over 30 degrees celsius in the shade and the bossanova rhythm floating across the still air.
    sooner or later we all make the little flowers grow

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